The Giant Race of the Formorians
|Home||The Formorians were a race of giants
who according to folklore of Ireland
frequented river banks lakes and the sea shore. According to
http://www.rootsweb.com/~irluie2/history/oldulster.htm on page 3 of 4 they
supposedly came in 6000 BC but for our purposes here we have to remember to
bring the date forward to 2520 AM or 1484 BC in historic times not long
after the exodus from Egypt of the Israelites. They came to Ireland at the
same time as Parthelon's Neolithic colony and both did battle together.
Their stronghold was on Tory Island where a lot of Mesolithic flint tools
have been found and so are therefore associated with the Mesolithic
industry. The author is of the view that they were advanced Neanderthals of
Hermitic stock and so were therefore primarily hunter gatherers who in the
winter when they were hard pressed raided the farmsteads of the
agriculturalists. Peter Beresford Ellis's dictionary of Celtic mythology
has them arrive at the same time as Partholan and his Neolithic colony on
page 100 of his work. This in all probability was at or near the end of the
ice age and they and the Parthelonian Neolithic industry people hunted the
Aurochs, a giant oxen or buffalo, and possibly even the mammoth and
In all probability the ice age lasted altogether
has proposed that the ice age on his model of things started about 3500 years
ago which is not far off for my timeline for Britain and Ireland. It is
End notes and references: It will also be noted that the Mesolithic
|The last British Neanderthals?|
|The Colonisation of Ireland|
|Catastrophism and Cave Men|
|Cave Men in Historic Times|
|Was there a Gap?|
|Chronology of Neolithic Man|
|Creation to the Romans|
WHO WERE THE FORMORIANS?
Correspondence on the Formorians.
You are right Dan about the formores having been driven out of britain
What skeletal evidence is claimed by Mr. Kimball that would be
Dan we did discuss the probability that the formores could have been Neanderthals although be it advanced ones with a "mesolithic industry " on Tory Island (perhaps as well as Britain). If you have a look at the "Celtic Dictionary of British mythology" I believe it's on page 100 middle paragraph; it says that the Formorians arrived in Ireland at the same time as Partholan. I don't know if you have any records of what industries Brutus had but for my money I've put Bronze on the table and I associate Partholan with Copper and stone implements as well as maybe Leg irons&c for horses so I went with the best information available on Mr. Kimball's recommendation
Communications between jxf and DAN JANZEN
PICTS AND FORMORIANS?
Totem poles may be traced back to Japan and are more common on the Pacific side of the states as a result. Did you have them in Scotland also?
Mike seems to think Craig has some good arguments for Canaanite origins for some of the "New World" tribes. I have found it interesting to note that Marco Polo was told that Sythians and Tarters lived on the other side of the Bering Straight. This is probably the best clue that I have found as to the origins of the majority of those in the "New World".
Now weren't the Formorians pirates or live by pirating? Many, if not most of the early pirates had connections with the New World. Some think that the Formorians when driven from England and Ireland actually settled in the New World. I am not sure of this.
I am not sure how you break this up into different "industries". There may have been a metal of choice or metals for which they had technology which became prominent in a cultural group but everyone must have traded and acquired a fair amount of metals from other cultures. At any one time there would have existed stone age cultures whose iron implements are now rusted to the point of non-existence and whose bronze and copper implements are just plain ignored by mainstream archeologists or are classified as bronze age, even though the culture did not have the technology but just traded for it.
Dan isn't it interesting that as you say the formores lived by "pirating". Isn't this exactly what the neanderthals ***THAT IS AN ASSUMPTION THAT YOU CAN NOT BACK UP--YES THERE WERE DECULTURED PEOPLE BUT I AM NOT SURE THAT NEANDERTHAL WERE NEARLY AS DECULTURED AS THEY ARE ASSUMED TO BE AND THERE IS NO WAY TO MAKE THE LINK--WE STILL NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHO THEY WERE AND THE WORK DONE BY JACK CUZZO IS THE BEST SO FAR AND I DO NOT THINK YOU CAN PROGRESS MUCH BEYOND WHAT HE HAS DONE WITHOUT BECOME AS KNOWLEDGEABLE AS HIM***did as mentioned in the book of Job; and indeed is it not possible that the mesolithic hunter gatherers (which according to the page I have here) raided the farmsteads of the agriculturalists and that is indeed what Donald A Mckenzie says of them in his book "Ancient man in Britain". ***HERE IT IS POSSIBLE TO SEE THAT THE PICS OR FORMORIANS WERE PROBABLY COEXISTING AND ONE RAIDED THE OTHER--IF ONE DOES GOOD HOMEWORK AND IS UP ON BILL COOPER'S WORK YOU CAN GET A GOOD IDEA WHO THESE PEOPLE WERE--EXACTLY AS YOU HAVE STATED BELOW***This is exactly what the formorians were; they were mesolithic industry people living alongside Partholan and arriving in Ireland and for that matter Britain at the same time as Partholancontemporary with the neolithic/chalcolithic industries (Please note not ages--VERY GOOD!). Peter Beresford Ellis in his book "Dictionary of Celtic Mythology" (Page 100 paragragh 5) has them arrive in Ireland at the same time as Partholan. Given the chronology of Ancient Europe by Prof. Gunnar Heinsohn of Neanderthal man arriving in Europe in 1500 BC this can be no mere coincidence. Because my research reveals about the same date. That is cave men in historic times in annomundi 2520 and 1484 BC ***i AM STILL NOT SURE WHAT YOU HAVE TO BASE THESE DATES ON--WHY NOT A DATE RANGE INSTEAD OF EXACT DATES. PEOPLE IN THE CREATIONIST COMMUNITY ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY UNLESS YOU HAVE AMPLE EVIDENCE OF THAT EXACT DATE***which is the date for the arrival in Ireland of Partholan***YES THAT CAN BE BACKED UP BY BILL'S EXCELLENT WORK***. If Dan you get a minute I'd like you to turn to the book by Beresford Ellis and go to page 100 paragragh 5***I DO NOT HAVE A COPY***. Also I'd like you to turn to this interesting link: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irluie2/history/oldulster.htm and according to this evidence also backs up in my view the evidence given by Mr Charles S Kimball. Remember that the date of 6000 BC tha they give is unacceptable and I reject it but the date is therefore brought forward to 1484 BC. Please have a look at this page (3 of 4) paragraphs 2; 5 and 6 and I think you will agree with me on this score but then again you might not. ***YOU ARE PROBABLY RIGHT***You talk about the Formores living by pirating and when they were thrown out of Britain by Brutus you talk about them going to Canada AND America. Maybe they did and what a good deduction this is for they could have become some of the red indian tribes with totem poles that we were discussing but they also went to Ireland again after being thrown out of Britain by Brutus***DIDN'T THEY INVADE WHEN THE IRISH WERE WEAK AS A RESULT OF A PLAGUE BUT THEY REPEALED THE INVASION. THAT IS WHY BILLS SOURCE BOOK IS CALLED "BOOK OF INVASIONS-CHRONICLING ALL THE INVASIONS OF IRELAND". You will find that the mesolithic ie the formorians lived along river banks according to Irish folklore and lakes. Partholan drove the formores back to Tory Island where some of their mesolithic flint implements have been found. I think that this proves conclusively that the formores were hunter gatherers and cavemen (***IT WAS UNCOMMON FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE EXCLUSIVELY AS CAVEMEN UNLESS THEY WERE VERY DECULTURED---MOST OF THE EVIDENCE WE HAVE SHOWS THEM LIVING IN CAVES MORE AS TEMPORARY SHELTERS FOR RECENT IMMIGRANTS OR HUNTING PARTIES AND AT TIMES WINTER HABITATION OR SPIRITUAL RETREAT CENTERS. MY ANCESTORS USED CAVES DURING THE WINTER AND AS A MEETING AREA AND THEY ARE STILL USED TODAY FOR THAT REASON***interacting in historical times with the civilized world and living contemporaneously with the metal working tribes of Britain and I would maintain that this is a fairly safe and sound deduction and inference. Please read this page Dan as the paper is only here in this connection used for research purposes only. John. I READ IT.
FORUM POSTS ON THE FORMORIANS BY JXF
The Book of Jubilee web site (link) I gave you put links to other web sites
and books. At this point, I only have confidence in the historical
information in the Book of Jubilees - be cautious about any of the other
From: "John Hext-Fremlin"
Subject: RE: Fomores
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:45:21 +0000
>Thanks once again for this Darrell. I have found two interesting links
>pages that I am reading at the moment appart from Dan's paper on ufos which
>are all very interesting and of particular interest is the one on the
>"Watchers" "Book of Enoch" incorperated into the book of "Jubilees". I
>will get back to you on this one Darrell because it is an "Anglo Israelist"
>paper on the tribe of Dan and also the Formorians and it mentions
>"Phoenician Formorians" as a matter of profound interest. Here it is
>http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/tracingdan.html; You know the tower
>you mention Darrell; "Well that was on Tory Island the Formore "Base camp"
>from where they launched their attacks. There are alot of other traditions
>about the formores. One says they were a "Hunter Gatherer group" whom
>Partholan found already in Ireland when he landed and then the Battle of
>Magithe started but I would have difficulty with that idea. We also have
>the problem of "The displaced Natives of Britain " whom Bill Cooper
>mentions in "After the Flood" so why then does Charles Kimball think they
>were the "Last Neanderthals " in Europe" which he clearly believes were
>caiananites although be it decultured cainanites. I have also found
>evidense that stone tools have been descovered by archaeologists on Tory
>>From: "Darrell White" :
>>Subject: RE: Fomores
>>Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:52:02 +0000
>>Dan and John,
>>All we really know from the 2 quotes I sent are that the formores were
>>mariners and decendants of Ham. This allows both Egypt and Canaan a
>>From: Dan Janzen
>>To: Darrell White
>>Subject: RE: Fomores
>>Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:31:20 -0800 (PST)
>>I would suggest that they may have been more of a proto-Phonecian group or
>>Canaanite group or may have included other Hamitic peoples that segregated
>>from other Hamitic peoples very early on. These peoples could have
>>settled very distant lands in the earliest times after the flood,
>>contributing genetics to the Native Americans, British Isles, etc. What
>>do you think Darrell?
>>Darrell White wrote: John, Here is
>>another quote I found today from the Irish version of the Historia
>>Britonum of Nennius. http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T100028/index.html
>> p. 45 (right side margin) "It was these men that defeated in a great
>>battle the mariners, i. e. the Fomorians, so that they fled from them into
>>their tower," 1) The mariners = the Fomorians. Since we ID the mariners
>>as the Phoenicians (Decendance of Sidon in particular), then the Fomorians
>>must have been of Canaan, son of Ham. Darrell
From: "John Hext-Fremlin"
Subject: RE: Fomores
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:22:17 +0000
Many thanks for that Darrell. If they were infact the Phoenicians
then they were a bronze using people who came to exploit the riches
of Brtain and indeed Ireland and enslaved some of the people to work
the copper and tin mines or else they kept their knowledge secret
and kept the natives in ignorence of the use of metals. Seems as
though Charles Kimball has got it wrong over the formores being
Neanderthals unless the Neanderthals had cainanite phonician origins
. That is the ownly thing that would make any sense. John
From: "Darrell White"
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:33:55 +0000
Here is a good reference for you. was just rereading this book today.
The Annals of Clonmacnoise p.
14 "These fformores were a sept Descended from Cham the son of Noel
that there liuved by pyracy and spoyle of other nations and were in
those days troublesom in the whole world" >> >>1) This tells us they
were in the line of Ham
2) Pyracy and whole whole suggest ships that move from point to
point around the world.
which in turn suggests the Phoenicians.
Darrell although Partholan was the first colonist of Ireland there was one
>tradition that says when Partholan arrived with his neolithic coloney and
>brought the Oxen with them they found the Formores already there and that
>this "was the tradition " or memory of a "mesolithic" Hunter gatherer group
>who lived on "Fowling and Fishing" and had arrived 200 years before and
>lived on "Tory (Torinez ) Island" (Could this have been arround 2247 BC
>during the world survey?) and fought the battle of Magithe but this was in
>2025 BC. Yet when we get to Nemed there is another tradition that says they
>were Mariners from Africa and if these were the Phoenicians I would prezume
>they had the EB1 industry from Mesopotamia if they were indeed Nimrod's
>men. So Could both traditions be true? Maybe you can evaluate this for me.
>Charles Kimball insists they arrived before Partholan (Although he was the
Hi Damien Dan Janzen reckons that a city of the type built by Cain
needed Iron tools to dress the stones; and yet we have a village or
ciry as Darrell likes to call it; that was built by hunter-gatherers.
I here sugest Cichol Gricenchos and his men as a base for opperations
between the North of Scotland Ireland and Scandenavia;
Yet as far as I am aware no Iron tools have been found there although
Red Ochre Paint (Used in Burial cerimonies by the Neanderthals has
been found there. The smelting of Iron was something that was unknown
untill the re-introduction of the iron industry in Britain at least
untill arround the 500 plus years BC in the so-called Pre-Roman Iron
What I am basicaly saying Damien is that the Formorei had developped a
mixed ecconomy of farming fishing and huntergathering which would make
them part palaeolithic and part neolithic industries so the
Neanderthal I sugest despite what the evolutionary establishment would
have us believe was indeed capable of some kind of Neolithic