Neolithic Man

John HXF's interpretation of Mike Gascoigne's Industry and Chronology Table of Britain and Ireland according to the annals of Clon Mac Nois

Hi Dan did you get my last message. The thing I want now to try and achieve;
is an improvement on my table for Britain and Ireland. Does Genesis
mention if we both of us have in mind Ussher's chronology if he's correct
(and I do have Ussher's annals of the World from Larry Pierce) that the
first migration could have been 300 years after the flood? or do we accept
the creation research chronology that the neanderthal were here in 2300 BC
(if this is more correct) which is their date for the ice age after 2348 BC?
You will also note that they say the ice age ended in 1800 BC and skip the
neolithic era and mention the bronze age as beginning in 1600 BC on their
time line . Larry Pierce argues that they are more likely to have arrived at
the time line of which I give; if we bear in mind that the period called the
stone age started at different times in different parts of the world. Is'nt
this sheer guesswork on the part of institute for creation research because
it clearly does not correlate with Bill Cooper's chronology. John

Danny did you ever get the industry and chronology table for Britain and
Ireland that I promised you. I think you'll find that I sent it a couple of
weeks ago. Larry Pierce advises me that as far as radio carbon 14 is
concerned that the nearer the date of the flood (2348 BC) they get ;the more
inaccurate they become and for that reason ane that reason alone is why I
found the date of 3310 +/- 150 acceptable for the Galley Hill Human remains
and I deduced the rest by simple arithmetic in other words 3310 + 150 =3460
and then adding the extra 24 years we get 3484 years ago =1484 BC and
annomundi 2520 when 2000 years to the present time is then deducted; so as
far as these islands are concerned this radio carbon date is the only one I
truly believe can be legitimately used. You will also see on my table the
dates for the introduction of Bronze industry and iron industry ie 1145 BC
for Ireland 1104 BC Britain (Bronze) and 504 BC or annomundi 3500 for the
mile sians arrival in Ireland and the introduction of the iron industry.
Please let me know if you have my chronology table and if you agree with
it. John.

Like I was saying. We need to move away from the idea of classifying things
as Bronze age and Iron age as if ancient people progressed through these
stages--lends too much support to obvious errors in evolutionary thinking.
Perhaps certain people groups (i.e. original inhabitants) were decultured by
the time they reached the isles overland (or perhaps they became decultured
after reaching the isles by sea--who knows-- we only have the records of the
group that came with Brutus and also the groups that took Ireland from its
original inhabitants) but one must consider that mariners were constantly
infusing new technology and the mariners probably were trading and had small
outposts (or contributions to the local genetic pool) for that purpose from
very early on. Iron or bronze industry could be either lost or gained
multiple times or held by some groups and not by others. We can connect
people groups to archeological sites where iron or bronze may or may not be
found in association. However, the presence of one or the other does not
indicate an industry among that people group unless you find the smelting
sites (trade was extensive) and different people groups specialized in
different technologies and traded for what they needed.

A Suspected Stone age Find by the Author

Dear Mike many thanks for your previous mail and I have here something that
will no doubt interest you. I've been busy with my website with one thing
and another catching up on "getting the message out there." However some
months ago I was busy ding my gardening work here in Brocton in Stafford for
one of my clients and came across a piece of flint with a hole having
looked as though it had been drilled through the middle of it and i have had
it photographed from various angles and should get the results next weekend.
One side of the stone is rough and unworked by the looks of things and
indeed if it is manmade I'm going to provisionally date it to 1484 BC. And
we must always remember that when trying to beat the evolutionist at his own
"uniformitarian game" We too can beat him at his own game; Having in mind
that the bible says "Test all things and hold to that which is right;
especially as this in my view would uphold the battle for Bishop Ussher and
his chronology and as I've just this minute said to Bill Cooper: "I'll do
any thing to defend it." Especially in view of the authenticity of the
previous conformation of the radio carbon date of 3310 +/- 150 years ago.
This in my view is indeed a scientific and I do mean truly and most noble
way to uphold the bible chronology of Ussher without adding to it. You know
Mike I believe this truly to be the case especially where the book of
Revelation is concerned: "That if any man add to or take away from this
prophesy; then he will get the plagues &c &c. What I am going to do Mike is
end you the photos of this stone by airmail to your address with another
letter enclosed and then perhaps you might be able to give me your verdict
as to whether it's manmade or not. I suspect that rae.org have their own
preconceived ideas of adding to Ussher's chronology and I think this would
be a very serious mistake and a slippery slope to go down. I don't know
what your views on this are mime but I suspect that Gunnar Heinsohn has made
a better job of chronology revision of ancient history even more so than
Velekovskey in this connection being that at least his version of it matches
up with Ussher. Many thanks Mike for your RC/14 report; it is the most
valuable asset that we have in this connection. Good hunting: John.

Dear John,
It had not occurred to me, but it is reasonable to expect, that
in your line of work you are more likely than most to uncover
artifacts, particularly in such a historic region. No doubt a
local expert from a museum or university would be the first
choice to evaluate your find, but I will be glad to offer an
opinion. Do you have a clear recollection of the original
location and depth of the piece? If it is part of a broken item
or larger group of artifacts, perhaps it would be worth going
back for some more digging. I look forward to looking at the
pictures in your letter.
Mike

Danny can you tell me whether some of the so called stone age finds such as
Swanscombe are of the pre-Flood era because as you know some of these
specimens have been found in waterlogged conditions. On the other hand there
could be no traces of humans at all before the flood because all life was
blotted out from the face of the earth. How would one go about answering
that ? It has been supposed that Heidleberg man was "Antideluvian" yet
archaeologists class him as early "Palaeolithic"?

Most of the information on the subject that is available is rather poor
research. Most have been sincerely trying to solve the problem but most are
not very aware of how destructive the flood really was. Fossils found in
caves are almost surely not pre-flood. Fossils found deap in the earth in
geological features such as coal or stone are almost surely pre-flood.
Fossils found in Paleolithic aluvial, lake, bog, glacial deposits are almost
surely post-flood if they are properly defined by the biased mainstream
geologists. So where are we going to place Heidleberg man? Many conclude
that the skeletal features of the jaw would indicate either pre-flood or
early post flood due to the fact that they are robust and atypical of modern
types. But I am not totally convinced because giantism has always been
around and a great variety of skull shapes. Unless it is similar to
Neanderthal I would not be convinced that it is early post flood. I think
we should have a systematic study of pre-flood skeletons (there are a number
of them) and compare to Neanderthal. This would be an incredible study.
Also, when working within the bias of evolution, when something is found
then immediately circular reasoning is invoked to date and categorize a
find. The fact that a human is found automatically makes it either a hoax
(the explaination for everything found in coal and deap by miners/well
drillers) or early Paleolithic. So a strata that would be normally be
labeled a much older date or period, may get automatically delegated to a
much more recent date or period due to this bias. Or perhaps the
categorizing of the find into early Paleolithic is right on and when we
adjust the time frame to young earth chronology we often find Paleolithic to
fit well with early post flood. However, due to the shoddy research and
biases of evolution even that is just as often wrong as right since "stone
age" finds may be labeled older than they really are or more likely "older"
on the evolutionary timescale just because they are considered primative.

Here is the best info. I have found on the web. This is really well done:
http://www.ancientdays.net/adamcaveman.htm

Heidelberg Man
Heidelberg Man has been presented as one of the best examples of human
evolution. All that is available, however, is a jaw supposedly 500,000 years
old found in the 1860's in Germany. The jaw was found in a gravel quarry at
a depth of about 80 feet. This quarry is located in a river valley. You
would expect a river, the Neckar River in this case, to deposit many feet of
gravel as it floods year after year. Instead of dating it 500,000 years old
because the jaw was found 80 feet deep in river gravel, there is no reason
to think it is more than a few thousand years old.
For instance, in Korea we excavated some pottery from the pre-Christian era
near the surface of the ground. But, in the nearby river bed, while
excavating the basement for a bank building, the very same type of pottery
was found at a depth of 25 feet -- 25 feet of deposit in only a little over
two thousand years!
Scientists generally agree that the Heidelberg jaw is modern. lts apparent
young age does not support the theory of human evolution, even though it has
been used as one of the main supports for it.

So in conclusion I would say that this has a great probability of being an
ice age deposit but could be later since these deposits can form quickly.
However, if it did not come from a gravelly stratum (from solid stone) then
I would say it would be an antidiluvian find (pre-flood). Most of the time
it is not all that hard to sort out what is pre and post flood. I am going
to cc Erich Von Fange and see if he wants to add any input. He is much more
versed in this research than myself.

Here is an example of a poorly researched article: I will give the author
credit for good research regarding the pebbles that are found. So many
archeologists/paleontologists have no knowledge of the art of knapping that
they assume that any surface that is chipped happened artificially. That is
just not the case.
http://www.sentex.net/~tcc/humfoss.html

You should and probably already have read:
http://custance.org/Library/Volume1
and Erich VonFange's book Noah to Abraham

DATES: HEIDELBERG, SWANSCOMBE, NEANDERTAHL ETC.
(JHF and DJ)
Hi Dan; yes that would be an excellent idea to set up a discussion forum on
neanderthal ancient history &c and to answer your question "that this is the
moment I have been waiting for for a long time?" Indeed it is. As regards
the Heidelberg specimen or Swanscombe: Call him what you will: "I think as
you say given the dates of recorded history and indeed in this connection; I
think I would agree with you and try and eventually "nail down a date for
Heidelberg/swanscombe man with further research at the forum. And yes it
would be nice to become the "Dates man " on Heidelberg given the present
research. ***Like I said in a previous email, I think that you and I should
become more familiar with the new research they are doing in genetics and
origins. If you really want to get some evidenciary backup and start to
build a case for your dates you have to start working this puzzle piece at a
time and a lot of the puzzle can be assembled with the new origins work that
traces mutations to their origins, hence people groups can be traced to
their origins. This is new "fertile ground" with lots of opportunity for
creationists to "show up" the evolutionists and put firmer date stamps on
people groups and migrations. This really is the "bonanza" of evidence we
are waiting for... Also what did you think of the book Table of Nations?***
I think that all I can say at the present is that Larry Pierce
more or less advises me the same as you "that to get too close to the flood
would only be guess work for a date for Heidelberg/Swancombe Man. However I
am advised by "Answers in Genesis" and Professor Andy Macintosh that my date
for the Ice age 2247/42 BC is about right so on that score I would stick to
my guns ***I agree that it sounds in the ball park but if you want to talk
to the best person on dating the ice age you should get ahold of Michael
Oard. Have you emailed him yet. Be sure to send him (also copy me) any
data that supports your hypothesis about this date for the ice age as I am
interested in what you are basing a 5 year ice age on. Michael Oard also
believes the ice age could have been very short but I am not sure how short.
That is why you need to talk to him and find out if you can improve on
your date or if you should be so set on that date and that short of an ice
age.***; However given the dates given by Prof Gunnar Heinsohn "wie alt bis
menchgeslecht" (How Ancient is Man) which he gives Swanscombe 2000 BC
Neanderthal 1500 BC Cromagnon 1400 BC : Bronze industry 900 BC and Iron
industry 600 BC; which is really all we have to go on : I would personally
not go beyond the present dates that I have given in my "Industry and
chronology table for Britain and Ireland which coincidentally has been
backed by Mr Bryce G Clark at Bethelcog.org as you have already seen; so at
present until further research has been done I cannot in all honesty go
further than the date of 2520 annomundi for Neanderthal /cromagnon and the
other coexisting metal and stone tool cultures as set out in "New Horisens"
from http://www.consciousevolution.com/Rennes/arthurchapter7 which is
roughly in line with my table so at the present moment in time I must go
with the date of 1484 BC for the contemporary industries of stone copper
bronze and iron and as you and Larry advise to go further than this for the
present would be most unwise. ***How did you arrive at that particular date?
Do we have enough evidence? I still think we are at the stage of trying
to establish date ranges.***I agree with you that I could read that page
over and over again by consciousevolution.com and I'm in absolute agreement
with it as regards contemporary industries and it has changed my mind on how
I think about the period called the stone age. So yes Danny : "Let's do it
and form this forum"> Times are indeed getting exiting are they not? John

***Perhaps you should contact the individuals below and lets organize this.
CC me. The one problem is that it is somewhat inconvenient to go to Mike's
forum. I would rather have emails directed directly to me. Perhaps we can
do both.***

***What do you think of Jonathan Gray?***

From: Dan Janzen To: John Hext-Fremlin Subject: Fwd: Re: Modern Tools
Neanderthal
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:34:33 -0800 (PST)

These people look like they share our interests. Teno has responded to
e-mails I have written and wants us to form a forum to discuss ancient
history.

David P Woetzel wrote: Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 06:53:24 -0500>From: David P Woetzel Subject: Re: Modern Tools w/Neanderthal

Did anyone find what the tools in question actually were?

Dave

>They keep trying to dehumanize Neanderthals, but now they've found modern
>human tools in between two Neanderthal layers (I think they were Snap On
>Tools :-)


Dear Sir I have sent you my most humble appologies from my address at 
http://www.yahoo.com>www.yahoo.com  and I realise now that I made a 
terible mistake; and you were perfectly with in your rights to be 
angry with me but I hope you have forgiven me for this unjust provocation on 
my  part. I would like us to move on if that is ok by you and let's look 
at my table for Britain and Ireland. As far as the subject of Anglo 
Israelism is concerned I think that there is much that we might aggree on and just 
as much again that we might beg to respectfully differ on. However Not 
long ago there was an interesting article on stone/Bronze/Iron ages &c and 
I've had a lot of interesting feed back from rae.org  In the article on 
stone bronze and iron in discussing the neolithic industry the author placed 
the migration from Europe to Britain in 1500 BC and insisted as I do that 
>before their dispersion  they that is the Indo Europeans had a primitive 
metallurgy centered around the working of copper . 
http://www.consciousevolution.com/Rennes/arthurchapter7.htm
http://www.consciousevolution.com/Rennes/arthurchapter7.htm 
However they dated the beginning of the Bronze industry or as they 
say Bronze age to c 800 BC and that this might be contemporary and 
simultaneous with the beginning of the Iron age. They further say 
that the Phoenicians did'nt open the trade routs between the middle Eastern 
countries and Britain until 800 BC when they allege the Bronze and 
Iron ages started. However I disagree with them in this connection 
because I have been advised by Mr Charles S Kimball Xenophile historian that 1 
The stone age and copper industry (chalcolithic/neolithic industries) were 
introduced in annomundi 2520 and 1484 BC 2 Nemed in 1145 BC and 2859 
annomundi introduced the Bronze industry there while in Britain with 
the arrival of Brutus and his Trojens introduced the Bronze industry in 
Britain in 2900 and 1104 BC. It is interesting to note that the 
formorians (Hill Giants ) could have been the last Neanderthal tribes in Europe 
descended from Ham. I also place the Formore/Neanderthal at the same 
time as Partholan in ca 1484 BC and 2520 annomundi. It must however be 
borne in mind in this connection that although Brutus had Bronze for weopeos 
armour &c; iron was used for agricultural purposes until the 
introduction in annomundi 3500 or 504 BC by the Milisians of iron 
swords armour &c to replace Bronze weopenry &c so this is when we can infur 
that this is when the Iron age started properly in that conection. Please 
let me know if you are in Broad agreement with my views on this and also 
let me know if you have received my table as an attatchment with this 
email.. I await your  response with great interest. 
God bless, John 


Dear Sir
I have not had the time to go through your work but in general
I agree with
<http://www.consciousevolution.com/Rennes/arthurchapter7.htm>http://www.consciousevolution.com/Rennes/arthurchapter7.htm
only I would reduce their starting date to 650 BCE.
The same applies to all other history of the British Isles including 
Ireland.

DATE OF HEIDELBERG MAN?

I am probably not going to be much help to you in the manner that you are asking because I just plain do not know. I personally do not think that we can be that good yet with chronology. We can go by historical records that the ancient people left behind but beyond that how could we be doing anything but just plain guessing.

Now, let me suggest redirecting your efforts, perhaps just temporarily. If we can utilize the new DNA genetics work that is being done then we can begin to get a little better grasp on nailing down the origins of the nations. The genetic trail will lead to the 3 sons of Noah. Wouldn't you like to be on one of the early experts on this and from this vantage point be able to gain more insights into an accurate chronology. I also have one other contact that is interested in this subject and we would like to start a forum to organize ourselves and discuss and coordinate our efforts. This is probably what you have been hoping for for a long time.

But like I say, I think we would be "jumping the gun" to try to nail down a date to Heidelburg man. There is way too much work to do before we can guess within even several hundred years of when most things outside of the Middle East occured before 500 BC, with few exceptions (i.e. where historical chronologies have been preserved). If I am wrong--let me know by presenting evidence why I am wrong.

Combined Industries Table for Britain, Ireland, the Middle East and Bible Lands

Dates AM	Industries		Dates BC		Events Creation
0			4004		Creation
1656			2348		Flood
1757	Early Stone Industry. Hunter-Gatherers pass through Britain		2247 BC		Division in Days if Peleg, World Survey and Ice Age
1770			2234		Founding of Babel and Tower takes 43 years to build
1796		Middle or Intermediate Stone Industry		2208	Ciocal son of Neil discovers Ireland 140 years after the flood
1810 - 1811		Late Stone Industry		2194-2193	Germany/Austria settled 155 years after the flood and 40 yrs after Babel. Tuiche or Shem HLH
1813			2191		Dispersion from Babel
1910	Late Stone Industry		2094		Samothians arrive in Britain
1951				2053	Trier founded by Trebetta son of Ninius the Assyrian 1300 yrs before Rome was founded (Austrian Chronicle and Compendium of World History)

1969	Neanderthal in Britain. Stone tool cultures contemporary.		2035		Parthelon arrives in Ireland. Older men of Genesis 10 in England.
1979			2025		Formores fight Parthelon. Battle of Magithe.
1979		Middle stone and late stone industries side by side		2025	Ciocal and his band of Formorian hunter-gatherers return to Ireland to hunt and fish. Finds Parthelon and fights the battle of Magithe

2008			1996		Birth of Abraham.
2234	Founding of Babel and Tower takes 43 years to build
2299			1705		Nemedians in Ireland.
2369		Late stone and copper industry		1635	Scotland and Britain colonised by Nemed’s descendants (alternative history part 2).
2513 – 2524	EB1 reaches Britain and Ireland.		1491 1480		Exodus Gaytholos and Scotta go to Ireland.
2715			1289		Firbolgue sons of Dela in Ireland.
2752			1252		Tuatha de Dannan in Ireland.
2888	EB1 and MB1 in Britain		1116		Brutus in Britain.
2949-2989	MB2 stimulated by Solomon.		1055-1015		Melitus in Ireland.
2559-2923		MB 1		1445-1081	Israel
2923-3282		MB 2		1081-722	Israel
2923-3418		MB 2		1081-586	Judah
3282-3465		Late Iron		722-539	Israel.
3465-3704		Iron		539-300	Israel (Ref Darrell K White)
3522-3570	Iron A		482-434		Line of Brutus ends. Civil War. Compendium of World History Ch 19 Vol 1 HLH
3705-3714	Iron B		299-290		Latene Celts in Days of Morindus invade Britain.
3949-3950			55-54		Two Roman invasions of Britain by Julius Caesar.

An Alternative History of Spain, Scandinavia, Germany, NW Europe, Britain and Ireland

Introduction to Chapter One The Key events in this Alternative History are 1 Year 0 crearion 4004 BC thus metal iron copper Bronze all being used up untill Babel and beyond but after the despersion there was a loss of technologies among some people groups while others retained them. 2 The Flood annomundi 1656 or 2348 BC. 3. Devision in the days of Peleg annomundi 1757 or 2247 BC. The Ice age started in 2260 BC and was seen by the survey teams and Britain and Europe covered by Ice by 2247 BC. 4 The Founding of Babel annomundi 1770 or 2234 BC and takes 43 yrs to build. 5 The despersion in 1813 annomundi or 2191 BC . 6 Egypt founded by Misraim eb1 annomundi 1816 or 2188 BC (Misraem is Menes) 7 Birth of Abraham annomundi 2008 or 1996 BC. 8 Exodus annomundi 2513 or 1491 BC (Ice age ends at this date). For other possible mechanisms for the Ice age I refur the reader to "Speak through the Earthquake Wind and Fire" by Graham A Fisher who suggests an Ice Planet at timeof despersion from Babel but since we have other mechanisms it is advisable therefore to state that there was a water vapour cannopy at time of the flood (Oard's date 2346 BC) but the Ice age propper by 2260 BC seen by the survey teams. After the flood there was a limmited surply of metal and people had this technology from the creation right through to Babel. It is noteworthy that Iron was used immediately after the flood although the survey teams might have had to create stone tools to aid them in their work mining for tin copper (Bronze) and Iron and gold ; Silver &c and particularly after the flood the earth was rich in minerals. Our History opens with Chapter one and is therefore post flood from the Ice Age to the Romans> The Reader should find these chapters of particular interest. JohnHXF (Author)

Chapter One:- The Sidonians:- Gadir was a son of Poseiden (Sidon) or Agadir from which the port of Gadir (or Gales) was built in Spain arround 2252 BC and was a port for shipping minerals &c between there and Britain some mining of tin and copper was done in Southern England at this time in Cornwall. It must be bourne in mind in this connection that Sidon was son of Caanan and the surveys and tin and copper mining were I sugest carried out by the Sidonian Phonicians who were thus Caananites. Thus after the flood some metal was available for working in Bronze and Iron but perhaps notably Iron. The Survey Teams probably first had to make stone tools to aid them in their work of mining for minerals and metals. Thus I am sugesting that the Sidonians at this time carried out the mining in Britain (Cornwall) and also built some "Survey Monoliths" (Reff; Darrell K White). By 2260 BC the Ice Glaciers covered Europe (Last world survey to 2252 BC. By 2247 BC Britain was covered in Ice and at this time the Japethites did not inhabit Britain but foundit a wast land ownly fit for hunter gatherers. I am sugesting here that the hunter gatherers of 2247 BC were thus a remnant of Sidon's familey who had buit the survey monoliths and mining in Cornwall for tinand copper when it was checked out by the early survey team who rappidly degenerated in to the stoneage cultures of what archaeologists term the "Palaeolithic Industry of whom probably the earliest of them and or remains have been found in Swanscombe in Kent. I sugest that these were the earliest Neanderthals decended from Sidon's men and got lost in to the "Hinterlands at this time." Mining for copper and tin was probably carried on on a small scale up to the time of despersion from Babel (2191 BC) when even more metal working technologies were lost but probably the metal tools that they posessed were passed on down through the various families untill they became "common place " again later. Chapter Two:- North Scotland and Scandenavia under Cichol Gricenchos, Cichol Gricenchos was Formorian/Caananite Chieften who was bourne ca 2250 BC and became chieften of the formorei (Picts) and began his fishing hunter gathering industry 200 yrs before the Battle of Magithe with Partholon in Ireland in 2025 BC. He and his sp Neanderthal Tribes which is what Darrell and myself are sugesting came and occupied Scandenavia (S Gusten Olsen : "Incredible Nordic Origens ) 200 yrs before Magithe in 2225 BC. Thus these industries are termed by archaeologists. "The Mesolithic Industry" It will be noted here that the village of Scara Brae was an outpost after the flood in those early days and we are thus sugesting that it was built by Cichol Gricenchos between 2200 and 2000 BC. I am thus sugesting that these were the combined mesolithic and Neolithic Industries and that the Formorians terned more to aggriculture and farming after the Battle of Magithe in 2025 BC. Thus these industries were this author conjectures and indeed sugests "A Mixed Ecconomy of Fishing huntergathering and Aggriculture. The Mammoth Sabre toothed Tiger ; Cave Bear and Wooly Rhinosorous were hunted by these hunting parties.It must be noted here in this connection that the terms palaeolithic mesolithic neolithic and copper Bronze and iron are here confind to Industries ownly and not ages.Thus the Time of devision in Peleg's day is dated to 2247 BC or 1757 annomundi. Chapter 4a.A descovery was made of Ireland 140 yrs after the flood in 2208 BC by Ardna son of Nin or familey of Nimrod (Also Caananites but not related to Sidon's familey) and were Cushites. Thus he did not stay long in Ireland but tested the soil and took samples back to Babylon thus simbolic of laying claim to Ireland but never returned. Chapter 4b.The German colonization by the German Neolithic and copper Industries people took place in 2193/2192 BC although 2192 BC would probably be more accurate near the Babel despersion 155 after the flood if we take the end of thew flood to be about 2347 BC then 2347 - 155 = 2192 BC for this colonization (HLH Compendium of World History) . I am sugesting that Ootzy the Ice man preserved in Ice also lived at the same time and was thus a contemporary (Review of German Neolithic Industries People by JohnHXF from History Player) Thus the copper axe would have been a very usefull tool to negociate the ice age glaciers of the alps at this time. Their hq was probably at Kolne Deutz hence thename Deutches (German). (Iwould sugest that the Sidonians kept their metal working technologies a secret from other peoples at the time they did the mining in Cornwall). The German colonization is thus verified by HLH (Compendium of World History and the Bayeriche Chronik. The building of the city of Trier (Not the oldest in Europe) and colonization took place 2000 yrs before caesar (79 BC) = 2079 BC for the founding of Trier.It must be pointed out in this connection that although Ardna descovered Ireland 140 yrs after the flood in 2208 BC that Cichol Gricenchos at best passed Ireland by in 2208 BC and saw the place where his father had shown him for fishing hunting and gathering but was in Scotland or at any rate North Scotland to start his industry in 2225 BC 200 yrs before Battle of Magithe with Partholan who had colonized Ireland 10 yrs before the battle in 2035 BC.
Chapter 5. The Neolithic Industry . Samothes in Britain. (England). The Neolithic Industries colonization of Britain occured 200 yrs after the flood (Holinshed's chronicles). Some of these people were hunter gatherers although I am sugesting that they were combined industries with the hunter gatherers who were probably poorer people ownly used flint tools while the aggricultural community most likely had flint and copper tools. And as we have already seen from the review of the German Neolithic industries which was about 2192 BC 500 yrs after the end of the flood (2347 BC) which was even earlier than Samothes we noted the Ice man Ootzy who had a copper axe to negociate his way through the Ice age Glaciers in the alps so no doubt the "Gricenchos Neanderthal sp Groups also coexisted along side of them at this time. In our next chapter we come to a Neanderthal led invasion of England by Albion .
I would just briefly mention that Samothes reached France about 2187/86 BC before comeing to England just after the flood of Gallia.
Chapter Six:- Albion in England:- The Samotheans were children of Japeth and Samothes is therefore called by Moses Meschec. There was a landbridge during the Ice age till the meltdown in 1491 BC. Albion invaded England with his Formor /Neanderthal groups (as we conjecture that the Neanderthals were children of Sidon who were thus Caananites by our Mine and Darrell's hypothosis) and defeated Bardus in France (Britain joined to France during the Ice Age with Landbridge) and the date of his arrival in now England were the Northern parts of the Celtic Kingdom in 2088 BC untill 2044 BC after his defeat. Thus the Neanderthals were in these Northern parts for many years after this and were still here at the time of Partholan colonizing Ireland in 2035 BC. Formorian Chieften Cichol Gricenchos was responsible we suspect for the colonies in Northern Scotland and Scandenavia arround 2225 BC and sugest he simply passed Ireland by in about 2208 BC 140 yrs after the flood (2348 BC) but was bourne in 2250 BC making him a mature leader when he started his industry in Scotland &c in 2225 BC 200 yrs before Battle of Magithe so must have seen the fishing lands that he claimed and tried to take from Partholan in 2025 BC. Trier fits a diffrent chronology and was colonized 2000 yrs before Caesar (79 BC) Thus 2079 BC being a reasonable average by the Assyrians (HLH compendium of World History) by Trebetta, son of Assyrian king Ninius (See combined Industries tables). Scandenavia was setted 62 years after the despersion from Babel in 2129 BC bt King Erick and the Goths (S Gusten Olsen Incredible Nordic Origins.
Chapter 7. Partholan :- Neolithic Industry in Ireland Annomundi 1969 or 2035 BC.
Partholan was the first to colonize Ireland and brought the plough and Oxen with him and probably used some copper tools as well as the usual flint implements and is also said to have introduced beer drinking from Gold cups and his coloney lasted about three hundred years which was 313 after the flood. Abraham was bourne annomundi 2008 or 1996 BC. Thus ten years later Sidon's son Cichol Gricenchos invaded Ireland descovered Partholan there so in order to try and gain his fishing grounds fought the Battle of Magithe in 2025 BC and Partholan defeated and killed Cichol Gricenchos and the rest of the Formorei in 2025 BC although thre might have been a remnent who settled down to farming. Thus most of Partholan's coloney ws wiped out by a plague although some members of his tribe might have survived till the time of Nemed who arrived in Ireland in 1736 BC; But before that we have to deal with Brtan Male who arrived in Scotland in 1766 BC which is our next Brief chapter.

Chapter 8. Britan Mael colonizes Scotland 1766 BC:-
Our next coloney arrived in 1766 BC in Scotland and colonised it. This is not to be confused with the later coloney of Hu Gadarn; whom according to the Cambrian Journal arrived in England in 1788 BC and some 22 yrs diffrence in the dates. Hu G arived later in ca 1421 BC in Southern England plus also Wales and were a Bronze using people which we will turn to in a later chapter. Partholan's coloney in Ireland ruled about 269 years and there was a gap of 30 yrs to Nemed in which Partholan's coney was wiped out by a plague which brings us to 1766 BC and a line of British kings decended not from Brutus but Britan Mael. Tools of Neolithic industry type have been found in burial chambers during this period and also copper tools I would however like to remind the reader that if a certain culture was labled say stoneage or copper; this does not preclude the use of some bronze/and or iron (Used in the construction of Ploughs and used as leg irons for horses and they searched for gold as well (and all during the last fases of the Ice age. Britain Mael (after whom Britain takes its name) was a grandson of Nemed who came 30 years before the arrival of the Nemedians into Ireland who arrived in 1736 BC (Our Next Chapter)
Chapter 8a Nemed in Ireland 1736 BC
The Nemedians under Nemed came to Ireland in 1736 BC (All Dates are from Geanealogy Spread sheet from Mr Darrell White) and ruled Ireland from 1736 BC untill 1520 BC which is a period of 216 yrs, (Annals of Clon Macnoise) . Many Lochs broke out in his reign but the land bridge between Britain and Ireland and France finaly gave way in 1491 BC at the time of the Exodus. The Nemeds won some victories over the Formorians (Note these Formores are from North Africa and decendents of Sidon and a Bronze using people) but were pirates and took Ireland eventually from the Nemeds who had pretty much the same industries as their predesessors and were of the late Neolithic and copper industries called by some archaeologists "Chalcolithic Industries; but as we've already seen from a previous chapter were in fact combined industries. There is some evidense for this from the burial chambers of which "New Grange " is a typicle example. There is also evidense from the North Sea of the diffrent stoneage cultures living side by side of each other contemporaneously. In most cases it seems that the Hunter gatherers raided the land of the aggriculturalists in some cases ; of which Cichol Gricenchos was a typical example. The decendents of the hunter gatherers (Citidals of Mystery Penguin Books) have been called by some archaeologists The "Secondary Neolithic" as is the case with the formores addopting aggriculture and settling down after the Battle of Magithe with Partholan in 2025 BC. Our next chapter deals with Ireland and Britain after the Ice age melt down in 1491 BC. In conclusion therefore to this chapter I am sugesting that the remains of Mammoth; wooly Rhynosorous &c are the remains and result of the Ice age melt down at the tine of the exodus annomundi 2513 or 1491 BC.
Chapter 10 Hiber Scot explores Ireland ca 1445 BC:- In ca 1445 BC Hiber Scot explores Ireland and claims it for his tribe who came 400 yrs later in 1045 BC and also Scotland. During this period Ireland was a wasteland and uninhabbited, Although some eb1 tools are found by archaeologists for this period it is not enough for a transition to eb1.
After the meltdown there were flowers and medows &c and there was production of mead and honey at this time. The Firbolgues sons of Dela arrived Ireland in 1304 BC and brought the early bronze industry with them while the Bronze industry in England and Wales was introduced By Hu Gadarn and his men (Decendents of Japeth) and arrived England in 1421 BC (Chronology Revision) and built stonehenge at this date as is evidensed by the mycenian Bronze Dagger and flint arrowheads found at stonehenge.
The Date for Hiber Scott exploring Ireland was 1477 BC (See Darrell's emails at www.johnhextfremlin.com)
and he made a claim for his tribe at this date when the Milesians under Miles colonised Ireland four hundred plus years later when they came in David's days 1055 to 1015 BC. Hiber Scot came to Ireland in 1477 while there were a remnent of the Nemeds there ruling untill 1304 BC while Ireland was a waste land after the Ice age melt down in 1491 BC at the time of the Exodus so while some of the Nemed escaped the catastrophe there may have been survivors; thus both concepts I am sugesting would be true. According to the Annals of the Four Masters a battle takes place about 1520 BC with the second wave of Formorians ; but none prior to the Firbolgue occupation in arround 1304 BC according to this thread of Irish History. Thus 1304BC to 1504 BC = 216yrs and to 1736 BC = another 216 yrs making a grand total rule of the Nemeds rule 432 yrs. In Keating we have two diffrent versions speaks of African Formorians fleeing the battle which sounds like 1480 BC to 1451 BC and three other battles happening about that time.
The Lebor Gebala (Irish book of invasions ) speaks of three battles against the formorians when four lakes burst forth between 1480-1490 BC. (This being a result of the Ice age melt down at the time of the exodus in 1491 BC). It specifies a 217 year period assuming 1304 BC + 217= 1521 BC adding another 215 yrs to 1736 BC Beginning of Nemed's rule totals again 432 yrs therefore using 1520 BC as a round figure makes things that bit easier. In Keating in the annals of Clonmacnoise it specifies that there was a battle 50 yrs before the firbolgue arrival in ireland in 1354 BC with the Nemeds but I sugest the nemeds ruled Ireland while the formorians on Tory Island with a remnent of each tribe so therefore no overall controll of Ireland being as it was a wasteland at this time.
Chapter 11 The Firbolgues in Ireland and reintroduction of Bronze Industry eb1 1304 BC
Our next arrivals came to Ireland with the introduction of the Bronze industry (eb1) in 1304 BC while there was a remnent of nemeds ruling till this time and they ruled Ireland for 37 yrs untill the tuatha dedannans took it in 1267BC and were there according to this chronology about 197 yrs +15 = 212 yrs untill Miles Gaytholos and Scotta took Ireland in David's days 1055 to 1015 BC This was Middle Bronze two mb2 stimulated by Solomon,
Chapter !2 England Brutus 1152 eb1 and mb1 in Britain (England).
It is said that when Brutus came to Britain after the fall of Troy in 1184 BC he landed in Totness in Cornwall but that when he arrived hefound some giants, I am sugesting that these giants were a remnent of the previous coloney of Hu G's men although it has been said that there were caananite giants in the lands or a remenent thereof and Brutus saved one of these giants for combat with Corenius who through GogMagog over his shoulders and where the deed was done to this day is called Gogmag's Leap . The Late Bronze industry started about 722 BC with a reffrence here to Darrell See emails at www.johnhextfremlin.com This concludes this small chapter and the line of Brutus which would be too time consuming . Late Bronze 722 - 585 BC

Chapter 13 Iron A and IronB in Britain to the Roman Invasions of Caesar. At the end of this line of kings of Brutus there was civil war and these were the Latene Celts with Iron (a) 546-539 BC with new technology of iron swards and weopenry Iron (B) was in the days of Morindus King of Britain 330 BC to 300 BC (Reffrences Compendium of World History HLH) and the two invasions of Caesar took place in 55 and 54 BC . The Romans conquered Britain in AD 43 (from memory) and the Picts were troublesome throughout the period of occupation so this is why Hadrians wall was built to keep the Picts in the North. The Romans left Britain in Ad 410 as the Goths and vandals Huns &c were attacking Rome so the legions were recalled back to Rome. This concludes the alternative History Paper JohnHXF,

Nemed 1736 to 1520 BC and the second wave of Formores: A Supplement to :- "An Alternative History of Spain; Scandinavia; Germany; Britain; Ireland and Northwest Europe (JohnHXF) From Genealogy Spread Sheet

Hi Darrell I enjoyed our telephone conversation yesterday evening and will use your sugested dates of 546 BC to 539 BC Iron A and 330 and 331 BC for Iron B and Late Bronze Industry Date 722 BC to 585 BC. On your genealogy spread sheet you have a date of 728 BC. Can you tell me what this date is Darrell? I have used the short time scale for Nemed at 1736 to 1520 BC (A Rule of 216 yrs). Can you let me have the time or date for the formorians assuming that this second wave from North Africa took Ireland from the Nemedians in 1520 BC as I can't remember how long you said they ruled untill. Many thanks Darrell, John

John,

As for the 728 date - please tell me what cell it is in. The only -728 I found was on the left hand column - which just represents average length between generations - and is not directly connected to any people.

Using the four masters, with 1736 BC to 1520 BC, they specify that Ireland was a wasteland for 200 years before the firbolgs who occupied it 37 years. 200 years being a round number, I will use the Annals of Clonmacnoise's date for the occupation of the firbolgs as 37 years from 1304 BC to 1267 BC. From 1520 BC to 1304 BC it was a waste (4 Masters) or occuppied by Nemeds (Annals). The Twathy De Dannan's took it in 1267 BC and held it till Miles sons took it.

Hi John,

Looks like it has been 10 days since I looked at my email. Will try to read your stuff and catch up in two or three days from now - I am swamped with outside work.

You had a good question. In the 4 masters were they have Ireland a wasteland after the ice age meltdown, a battle occures abour 1520 BC, but none just prior to firbolgs occupation. In the Annals of Clonmacnoise the battle (Conaing Tower - in Keating) occurred 50 years before the firbolgs occupied Ireland 1354 BC - which posses the question why 50 years before occupation?

In Keating, 2 different versions, one version speaks of African Formorian's fleeing (which sounds like 1480 to 1451 BC). The other version speaks of 3 Battles: Sliabh Badhiad, Ross Fraochain, and Murbholgin Dalriada happening about that time. Those battles may have been the battle mentioned in the 4 masters.

In my notes on the Irish timeline, the Lebor Gabala - book of invasion, specifies 3 battles against the Formore when 4 lakes burst forth (about 1480 - 1490 BC). It specifies 217 year (I assume until the firbolgs occupy Ireland = 1304 BC + 217 = 1521 BC.

The Book of Invasions also specifies 440 years from Gaedel and Scota to Spain to the arrival of the sons of Mil. From memory I place that at about 1044 BC +or- 10 years.

It looks like I will need to resolve the 25 to 27 year descripancy(sp) in Irish history sometime in the next few months, but it is starting to look like a 27 year shift (lowering the dates) will be needed. 1520 BC minus 27 = 1493 BC. Since Keating speak of Formorians fleeing and also of 3 battles, it seems the 1520 BC will probably need to be adjust to match the time after the Exodus, but does that fit with the arrival of Gaedel and Scota?

more latter

Darrell

On 8/28/08, John hext-fremlinwrote:
Hi Darrell many thanks for your email. Looks like my guess was pretty close judjing from the text down below and the expodition of Hiber Scott with his claim for his tribe who came 400 yrs later as you say most probably occurred around 1455/45 BC give or take a few years. There are some texts I've seen actually have the firbolgue and formores fight each other to a draw and then rule Ireland jointly; but how true that is I would'nt like to hazard a guess but again I'd suggest in conclusion "no smoke without a fire". John

Subject: Re: Nemed 1736 to 1520 BC and second wave of Formores SOS
Hi again Darrell: The Combined Industries charts sugest that 1480 BC might be about right for Hiber Scot's claim to Ireland if his tribe came 440 years later woulf thereofre figure with the slightly higher dates range for 1480. Now if the Formores fought these battles say 1480 to 1520 BC; I would like to conjecture that this would probably fit in with the time of Soloman when he chased the caananites out of Caanan and may well match up with the Formorians fleeing about 1480 BC plus the remnant of Nemeds after the Ice age melt down thus 1491 BC; so yes Iwould aggree with you that these battles were fought with the Nemeds (1520 BC - 1480 BC= 40 yrs) for a period of 40 yrs. Conclusion the formores flee Ireland and Hiber Scott makes his claim in 1480 BC by simple deduction. John

Hi John,

I am using a quota system for writing my paper. This weekend, if I meet my quota, I will research Ireland.

Joshua attacked the Caananite starting 1491 -40 yrs in wilderness = 1451 BC.
The sons of Miles arrived in David's days, 1055 - 1015.

Yet interesting concept you suggested. If a remnant of the Nemeds remained, Hiber Scott may have been involved. Hiber would not have a just claim unless 1) It was already a wasteland or 2) unless he subdued the inhabitence of Ireland (remaining Nemeds).
You said "the firbolgue and formores fight eachother to a draw and then rule Ireland jointly;"
what if they did, but it left Ireland essencially a wasteland which Hiber Scott could claim in the 1477 BC time frame. 1477 BC is an arbitary number - but important on my chart of durations.

Hi Darrell things are now getting mighty interesting and especially with your new date for Hiber Scott making his claim for Ireland in 1477 BC (Very close to the old industries chart date 1480 BC) . Sugest using this date for Hiber Scott with it's lower limit of 1477 BC. Thus if Miles &c came in David's Day ie 1055 to 1015 BC then 1477 BC - say 1055 BC =422 year period untill Miles took Ireland from the Tuatha de Daanan and then from 1015 BC to 1055 = 40 yr period; Thus therefore adding the 422 yr period + 40 yrs =462 yrs exactly from Hiber Scott to Miles if my arrithmatic be correct. Thus we now have a period of 212 yrs from the Tuatha de Daanans to Miles instead of the 197 yrs we had originally. Thus suggest use the 197 (Lower limmit date) with another 15 yrs added on=212 yrs for the upper limit. We also had the original date you gave for the Nemeds Darrell at 1705 BC (Please go to my website and click the "Neolithic Man" icon on my conbined industries tables thus www.johnhextfremlin.com). Thus 31 yrs was added to Nemed's arrival in Ireland making it 1736 BC again as an upper limmit instead of 1705 for the lower limmit; Thus this might explain the 25 to 27 year discrepancy you were talking about; but that's ownly an educated guess. On the alternative History I'm writing Darrell I have Partholan ruling Ireland from 2035 BC to 1766 BC assuming this to be correct in conclusion. What do you reckon Darrell as this seems to work out about right even more the further we delve into it? John

Interesting Concept and the Archaeological Record:-
Darrell; if there were a remnent of the Nemeds after 1491 BC (and I am in aggreement on this concept) and/or Ireland was a "wasteland at this time; thus it would seem that both would/could be true I sugest because of the testimoney also of archaeologists who have found some early "eb1 tools and weoponry" alongside Nemed's "Late Neolithic and copper industries" Then this would testify that there was a remnent of Nemeds as survivors in a wasteland coexisting alongside of Hiber Scott when he made his claim in 1477 BC for his tribe in 400 plus years time in 1055 BC. Thus then in conclusion I would sugest it was the remaining Nemeds and Hiber Scot who probably coexisted with the Nemeds and not the firbolgue and formores supposedly in 1354 BC as the firbolgue were ownly in Ireland from 1304 to 1267 BC which in view of this would rule out the 54 yrs although the formorians had a fortress on "Tory Island"

Thus Darrell my concluding comments would be to conjecture it maybe that the formores occupied a portion of Ireland for 54 yrs untill the Firbolgue came in 1304 and were finally defeated by the Tuatha de Dannans say arround 1267 BC. .John

John,
I've done my quick review and think I have found a fit that works well.

I detected two comment in the ancient chronicles of Ireland that I will use to adjust the chronologies, in order to allow the four masters and the Annals of Clonmacnoise to match up with Ussherian Chronology.

When speaking with you on the phone I mentioned a 27 year duration which seemed like it was exactly what was needed to match them up. It seems that it took 27 years for the Twathy De Danan to fully drive out the Fir Bolg.

In reading the book of Invasions, the source for a 440 year duration, a 700 year duration, and a 300 year duration, I could not get the 770 year duration to fit correctly. That was frustrating.

But in the Annals of Clonmacnoise (which I have found to be the most reliable chronologically), stated that the sons of Miles arrived in the 12^th year of David. It mentioned some chronologically confusing information relative to Thutmoses III and Solomon also.

Now if I use the 12^th year of David (1043 BC), then add 197 years for the Twathy DeDanan, I get 1240 BC.

If I add 27 years for the time the Fir Bolg were being driven out, then I get 1267 BC for the end of the Fir Bolg rule. Adding 37 years I get 1304 BC for the start of their rule. 50 years before this, a Battle was fought were the Fir Bolg eliminated all resistance.

Assuming the Four Master's was correct about the 200 years (rounded number) of wasteland, then 1304 BC + 200 years = 1504 BC for the last battle which broke the remaining power of the Nemeds. Although I think these things may have been happened closer to the Exodus.
Reversing:

Now from Parthalon who arrives 313 years after the flood in 2035 BC (first year of Semiramis), fights a Battle in 2025 BC.

The 269 year duration (I noted) was from the 12th year of Semiramis which would be 2024 BC.
So 2024 BC -269 years = 1755 BC for the Plague upon the Colony and 30 years latter would be 1725 BC for the arrival of the Nemeds.

Who dominated Ireland (216 years - Four Masters) 217 years (Book of Invasions) = 1725 BC - 217 years = 1508 BC for the first of the 3 great battle.

If we wave our hands and say the battles went on from 1509 BC to about 1504 BC, then things match up all the way.
Thus:
2348 BC: Great Flood
2035 BC: Parthalon Arrives (313 years after the Flood) (312 years in the Book of Invasions)
2025 BC: Battle
2024 BC: start of 269 years dominion over Ireland
1755 BC: Plague - wasteland for 30 years
1725 BC: Nimhedh arrives. Rules for 216 years (217 years in Book of Invasions)
1508 BC: Battles with Formorians
1504 BC: Last of three Battles: Ireland without a King for 200 years - a wilderness or wasteland
1354 BC: (Long Strife) Battle with Formores
1304 BC: After 200 years, Fir Bolg rule Ireland for 37 years.
1267 BC Fir Bolgs battle with Twathy De Danan (long strife)
1240 BC Fir Bolg power eliminated. Twathy De Danan rule for 197 years
1043 BC Son of Miles arrive, expel the Twathy De Danan from power. (12^th year of King David)

How does this fit with the 440 years of the Book of Invasions?
1043 + 440 years = 1483 BC, the 8^th year after the Exodus.
Close, if the 440 years was meant to be from the time Gaedel left Egypt.

1483 BC + 770 years = 2253 BC which is about the date I have for the division of the territory of the earth between the 3 sons of Noah. (not for the flood)

If the 770 years was really 870 years then 2353 BC is very close to the date of the Flood.
So 95 years off may just be a typo.

Now concerning when Hiber Scot claimed Ireland, the Book of Invasions generates a lot of confusion. I will just have to read it real carefully sometime, but it could be a sizable time after the Exodus before his claim.
The time you quoted (I think 1460 BC) is reasonable, but it is likely latter, but before 1356 BC.

Hi Darrell having in mind that there was a one world governmemt under Nimrod and Ardna was of the same familey I am wondering whether he visited Swanscombe as well as Ireland arround the 2208 BC time frame as he did in Ireland; thus in conclusion the Egyptian relics found by Dr Cuozzo found at Swanscombe. What do do you reckon Darrell?

Hi John,

No record.

2208 BC is before Egypt was founded (2188 BC).

It clearly says that Nimrod (Osiris, Ninus) visited every inhabited part of the world. It would be best to research to determine about when that was. It was certainly before the war of the titans, but after 2125 BC.

Britain Mael 1766 BC

Hi Darrell we have Partholan colonise Ireland 2035 BC then Battle with Cichol in 2025 then 2024 BC period of rule minius 269 yrs = 1755 BC then 30 yrs to Nemd = 1725 BC. Thus adding another 11 years for Britain Mael colonising Scotland= 1766 BC. Thus from 1766 BC to 1725 BC = 41 years in Total from Britain Mael to Nemed although the locations are diffrent ie one in Scotland and the other Ireland. John

Hi John,

It has been a long time since I researched Britain Mael, but keeping him aligned to the Plauge - which is now 1755 BC -- sound best until more research is possible.

Darrell

supplement to my History paper as I think it best you know more and are better informed than I am. John

Conclusions to History Paper

Hi Darrell many thanks for your thread of events in Irish History; Thus they seem a perfect match and seem also to aggree with the History paper I submitted to you. However I was about 17yrs off in my estimate for Hiber Scott. you sugested that 1460 BC was a reasonable estimate for Hiber's claim to Ireland for his tribe some 400 later. Thus if 1043 BC in the twelfth yr of David; then 1043 + 400yrs (Using 400 as a rounded figure) = 1463 BC for Hiber's exploration of Ireland plus his claim. What do you reckon for that estimate Darrell? John

Hi John,

Again I've gone 5 days without looking at email.

Not sure where the 400 years came from, but if using it, I would suggest rounding it off to 1460 BC. 1463 sound like a precise number.

It would take a lot of research to find any better number, but it could be off plus or minus 30 years easily.

Darrell

Dates BC 4004 BC creation of universe Adam and Eve. Generations up to the flood were highly civilized with the use of bronze and Iron and Tubal Cain was an artificer in "Brass and Iron. "
Annomundi 1656

2348 BC Great Flood.........................................................................................................

2260 BC Start of Ice Age The glaciers are seen on the mountains at this time by survey teams,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

,2252 BC Gadir son of Sidon Builds port in Spain (Gales or Gadir) which is a land mark in the devision of the earth as port for trade between Britain and Spain and survey team under Gadir mine for copper and Tin in Cornwall in Southern England; Check it out with some survey monoliths..........................................................................................

2247 BC Palaeolithic and Mesolithic Industries Combined:-..............Britain and Ireland covered in Ice at this time and not a desirable place to live and sugest remnent of Sidon's familey or at least some of them become lost in Hinterlands 101 after the floodand degenerate into huntergatherers. Peleg bourne at this time and the earth is devided................................

.2234 BC. EB1 Babel founded at this time under Nimrod's rebellion and takes 43 yrs to build.................................................................................................

2250 BC Cichol Gricenchos bourne to Sidon and survey teams return to Ireland in 2248 BC to show Cichol his fishing grounds............................................................................

2225 BC Palaeolithic/Mesolithic industries.......................................................Cichol Gricenchos after 25 yrs becomes mature Leader of Caananite Formorian /Neanderthal sp Groups and beggins his Hunter gathering /Fishing industry and colonises North Scotland and in 2208 BC passes Ireland by (Here speculating see emails) and was in Scotland 200 yrs before Battle of Magithe with Partholan in Ireland.............................................................................................................................

2208 BC 140 yrs after the flood Ardna of the familey of Nimrod visits Ireland does not come back but goes back to Babylon with a sample of Soil................................

2252 BC /2191 BC...............Family of Sidon in Spain, from the port of Gadir or Gales mine for copper and tin to make Bronze but keep their technology secret (In Cornwall an outpost in England during the iceage) untill the despersion from Babel in 2191 BC thus keepng the huntergatherers ignorent of the use of metals (Please see emails from myself and Darrell)......

2192 BC German Neolithic and copper industries.......................At this time Germany is colonised by Tuitch (Shem) and make their HQ at Kolne Deutze ; Hence the German word Deutches. Copper Axe is found by archaeologists combined with flint arrow heads in Italian/Austrian Alps (Note this does not preclude the use of some bronze as bronze and iron tools were handed down from generation to generation untill they became common place again later and were thus stone and copper combined industries.

2191 BC...................... Combined stone and copper/Huntergathering Industries.............................At this time the languages are confused at the despersion from Babel and some of the tribes quickly loose technology and degenerate into the "Stoneage" Cultures at the same time that someof the metal working industries are retained......................

2191 BC Dispersion from Babel Confusion of Languages at this time and degeneration with some tribes to stoneage cultures but some technology not altogether lost : Sugest main Bulk of Ice at this time by Ice Plannet although start of Ice age in 2260 BC (Please see Speak through the earthquake wind and fire by Graham A Fisher).........................................

2148 BC Neolithic Industries and Copper...................Samothes arives in England 200 yrs after flood and colonises it in 2148 BC. Sammothes called by Moses Mesheck.

2129 BC Scandenavian Neolithic and Copper industries..............King Errick arrives (S Gusten Olsen Incredible Nordic Orrigins also see emails at www.johnhextfremlin.com ) and colonises Scandenavia with his Goths..........................

2088 BC to 2044 BC .........Palaeolithic /Mesolithic Industries combined.......... Albion arrives in the Northern Celtic Kingdoms now England which was joined by landbridge from France during the Ice Age and defeated the fourth Sammothian King in France (Cromagnon tribes) but replaces Samothes with Caananite/Neanderthal sp Groups....................................

2044 BC to 2035 BC Continuation of Neanderthals and also Neolithic/Copper industries.........................................................................

2079 BC (Trier; Germany) Neolithic/Copper Industries...............The Germans (Assyrians ) under Trebetta colinise and Build the city of Trier 2000 yrs before Caesar (Caesar bourne 79 BC). ......An alternative History says it was colonised 1300 before Rome (Rome Built in 753 BC therefore on this chronology (1300 rounded figure)

2035 BC In AM 1969 or 2035 BC Partholan (Neolithic /Copper Industries arrives in Ireland 313 after the flood................................

2025 BC Battle of Magithe with Formorians (Picts) under Cichol Gricenchos...............

2024 BC period of dominion till 1755 BC is a period of 269 yrs that Partholan rukles Ireland also sugest formores settle down to Farming and aggriculture (Neolithic Industries) called by some archaeologist the secondry Neolithic (Decendents of Hunter Gatherers in this case the earliest formorian picts under Cichol) thus were contemporary with Partholan from 2024 BC (Sugest Skara Brae Village builed by formores at this time

1755 BC Plague wipes out Partholan's coloney at this date and Britain Mael (List of British kings from Britain Mael not Brutus) colonises Scotland who is Grandson of Nemed to 1725 BC = 30 yrs. ......................................................................................

1725 BC to 1508 BC Late Neolithic and Copper Industries....................................Nemed rules from 1725 BC to 1508 and has three Battles with North Affrican formores at this time..................................1

1504 BC Last of three battles with formores breaks power of Nemeds and Ireland becomes a waste.......................

.2191 BC to 1491 BC is an exact figure of 700 yrs (As Oard's timeline for the Ice age sugests and ended in the time of the exodus in 1491 BC thus 2191- 1491 = 700 yrs exactly.........................................

.1460 BC (approx) some eb1 implements found during this period but not enough for Transition and Eber Scott makes a claim for Ireland during this period for his tribe the milesians who came 400 yrs later in 1043 BC (Perhaps a more exact date would be 1443 BC for a lower limmit) But I am using 1460 as arounded figure and explores Ireland at this date............................Britain and Ireland already separated from the continent................................................1504 BC to 1304 BC Ireland a wasteland but if remenent of Nemeds then mede and Honey were grown at this time ...............1354 BC Firbolgue fight the Formorians and eliminate all opposition 54 yrs before Firbolgues take Ireland (Transition to eb1)...........................

1304 BC EB1 Firbolgues get a foothold on Ireland and occupy it for 37 yrs..................................

1267 BC Tuatha De Daanans invade Ireland (Period of long strife) and do battle with firbolgues and are finally ousted in 1240 BC..............................................

1240 BC ..........Tuatha de Daanans rule Ireland for 197 yrs till 1043 BC..........................

1043 BC MB2 (Stimulated by Soloman) The milesians arrive in Ireland in the (Twelth? ) year of David and take it from Tuatha de Daanans)...............

1421 BC ...........(Lower limmit 1365 BC)..........England .......... Hu Gadaarn arrives in England at this date colonises it (after exodus and Ice age and South England a waste Land ) and brings Bronze industry and construction of Stonehenge Flint arrowheads and Bronze mycenian dagger.............................

1152 BC Brutus arrives (A mix of MB1 and EB1 ) in Totness and sugest giants were from Hu G's coloney.
722 BC Late Bronze Industry......... Line of British kings under Brutus ends circa 585 BC...........

330 BC to 300 BC Iron (B) The Latene celts in Britain (see previous Industries table combined)........................

55 BC and 54 BC Two Roman invasions of Julius Caesar....................................................

AD 43 The Romans Conquer Britain under Claudius.................................................

AD 410 The Roman Legions leave Britain as the Huns Vandals and Goths attack and sack Rome so the Legions are recalled to Rome. The Picts were troublesome throughout period of Roman occupation thus Hadrian built the wall to keep the Picts out.

2189 BC to 2025 BC Correction to Table shows that Skara Brae was the first or one of the first villages to be built after the despersion circa 2189 BC contemporary with the founding of Egypt which is carbon dated by Robert Lomas at 3215 BC. Also the person who broke his necklass did not have time to pick it up and this incident is carbon dated to 2655 BC by Lomas. However it must be noted in this connection that the date of 3200 BC matches the creationary date of 2189 BC with the founding of Egypt and also the building of the city or village of Skara Brae by Cichol Gricenchos as a base for opperations in Scotland. Thus Skara Brae was suddenly abbandoned in 2025 BC after the defeat by Partholan. Suggest this marks the beginning of Neolithic civilization plus some hunter gathering.

Annomundi 1656 ; 2348 BC ...............Great Flood................................................................................................................................................................................2295 BC/to 2265 BC and to 2254 BC......................The World Survey Teams from the above Date Go to China and all metal working was known immediately after the Flood and brought through it from creartion in 4004 BC......Survey Teams at this time probably make stone tools to aid them in mining for metals...............................................................................................................2254 BC Earth is devided and Cush goes to his kingdom...2247 BC ...Birth of Peleg (Earth Devided).........Some of the Survey Teams degenerate into Stone age Cultures ...and are lost in the desert regions........................................................................................................................2260 BC Start of Ice Age and ice becomes visible by survey teems at this time.................................................................2234 BC Founding of Babel and Tower takes 43 Yrs to Build (3 witnesses)...............................................................................2191 BC Despersion from Babel with probable "Ice Plannet" catastrophe at this time...............................................................2189/2188 BC (Early Bronze) Founding of Egypt (FY1).......Menes had seven sons and they built 7 city states, 5 in Egypt and two in Libya; in the war of unification about 27 years after the founding of Egypt, some of the cities were destroyed and ended with ownly four left; one for the W. and E. Delta Regions.What today is North African Desert appears to have been lush at the time. A great lake existed in North Africa and Libya and was a good fertile area. Early Bronze 2188 - 1500 BC.......................MB1...................................1500 BC - 1055 BC..........................MB2...................................1055 BC to....................1445 BC-1081 BC.............MB1............................Israel.................................................1081 BC-722 BC..............MB2.............................Israel................................................1081 BC-586 BC.............MB2..............................Judah................................................722 BC=539 BC............Late Iron........................Israel.................................................539 BC-300 BC...............Iron..............................Israel..............................Ref. Darrell K White

Hi Darrell what do you reckon of the newlook industries chart based on my/your researches which has just been published on my website and of which I hope you have received your coppy. On the face of it; it is something that I feel quite confidently recomend to the whole "Young Earth Creation Movement" as a whole; being the fact that never before has this sought of chart (which usually deals with Egypt Babylon and biblical countries) been achieved; especially the industries in my estimation that match up very well with the genealogies which you have given me. I have thus widened the spectrum therefore in dealing with the "Prehistoric Period " for which there are amply good explanations as well as for the so called historic period; and have thus supplied one or two of my own inferences or speculations concerning that period especially where the construction of the village of Skara Brae is concerned by the Formorei when they settled down after the battle of Magithe more to farming than hunter gathering. Thus what I am saying in conclusion to this study; is the factr that Partholan began his period of domminion in Ireland as you say in 2024 BC one year after the battle; so it would be very reasonable in my estimation to conjecture that the remnent of formorian picts from Battle of Magithe would settle down and maybe even exchange ideas with Partholan's coloney on Aggricultural methodology at the same time. I would thus therefore like to sugest that the building of Skara Brae was therefore contemporary with the period of Patholan's dominion from let us say 2024 BC to 1755 BC which is the date for Britain Mael and the plagues in Ireland. John

John,

Yes, the Newlook Industries Chart is quite an achievement.

As for Skara Brae, it is one of three sites in north Scotland. It appears to me to be the first.

After the dispersion, when a son was of age with a family able to help, they built a city. I like to think of Skara Brae as the first city that Cichol built as the base for operations.

http://www.robertlomas.com/Orkney/skarabrae.html suggests the earliest dates are:

Nobody is quite sure when Skara Brae was first inhabited, as it is clear from the excavations that the earliest of the surviving buildings (radio carbon dated to 3,215 BC) have been built on the foundations of much earlier ones. The most recent structures, however, were abandoned very suddenly. A small pile of bone beads was found strewn along the main passageway suggesting that the owner of the necklace had snapped its cord whilst rushing from house seven, and had no time to collect the dropped beads.

In one of the wall cupboards a horde of 2,400 inscribed beads and pendants that must have had great value, had been abandoned. Carbon dating says that this sudden evacuation happened around 2,655 BC.

From Egyptian radiocarbon dating, we find that 3200 BC matches well with 2189 BC or the founding of Egypt. 2655 BC would match up with 1900 BC to 2000 BC time frame. Possible the time of the defeat by Partholon in 2025 BC.

Hi Darrell was it the Patriarc "Celts" who defeated Albion in 2044 BC? If it was; perhaps I can sugest that it was indeed "Celts" who built the village of "Windmill Hill" as you say in 2038 BC> Also our research sugests that the Neanderthal SP Groups under Cichol Gricenchos were the first in Scotland to addopt the civilization of the Neolithic industries (Skara Brae ) in 2189/2188 BC so that if cecular chronologists say that the Neanderthals were not capable of Agriculture and indeed Neolithic civilization; then our research seems to show that totally the opposite concept is the truth; and I certainly believe that that is so in Scotland some 100 and plus years before 2044 BC. If Samothes was what Moses calls Meseheck; it seems likely that if they were 200 yrs after the flood (2148 BC) then they were probably Cromagnon Hunter gatherers as I seem to remember you once pointing out to me. Perhaps the Samothians had some people in it who practised the "Upper Palaeolithic industries while others at the same time practised the Neolthic and copper industries. At any rate the newlook industries chart for Spain; Scandenavia &c shows them to be Neolithic and Copper Industries from 2148 BC as HLH seems to sugest. What do you reckon Darrell? John

A quick reply.

Albion was defeated by Hercules (Osiris' general: note Osiris died about 2068 BC.)
It was said Hercules had an Army with him and things were going poorly for them against the three giants.
I would speculated that some Celts may have join that army.

But more to the point, Albion, 44 years earlier, defeated the Celts in northern France (possibly Southern England also). The book (?) mentions the name of the King at that time (decendant of Samothes).

So we can be confident that the Celts (decendants of Samothes) indeed colonized the area of northern France (and possibly southern England) before 2088 BC.

I do not want to revisit this research right now, but information given in the book (?) allows for more specific dating than the above, but no absolute date.

Darrell

Subject: Windmill Hill Neolithic Industries

Darrell I've been dabbling with the Windmill Village which in conventional dating is radio carbon dated to 3000 BC. Would this not correspond to the arrival of Samothes 200 yrs after the flood say 2148 BC? It certainly is a little less than the date for Scarra Brae which in conventional dating as you have said relates to 3215 BC which in creationary Ussherian time line correrlates with 2189 BC. This is just an educated Guess. John

Yes, a date of 3200 BC for Scarra Brae matches the old kingdom in Egypt which by the corrected chronology starts in 2188 BC. So a date of 3000 BC should match well with (2188 - 150 y) about 2038 BC. This would match with Albions defeat (2044 BC if I remember correctly). Since Albion occupied southern england after he defeated the Samotheians (44 years before that), I would suspect that they were in southern England before 2088 BC. Wh ere is Windmill Village located ( a map link would be nice).

Darrell

Albion was defeated by Herculese the General of Nimrod (Osiris) in 2044 BC. It is quite possible that there were some celts in this army. It is quite apparrent that the celts werwe here before 2088 BC which was when Albion invaded France and defeated Bardus and Southern England also 200 yrs after the flood in 2148 BC when Samothes came to England. I will therefore conclude this paper with a table showing the construction of Windmill Hill which is conventionally dated to 3000 BC which on the corrected Ussherian chronology correrlates with 2188 BC (for Skara Brae -150) = 2038 BC and is therefore a match for the defeat of Albion in 2044 BC...............................................................................................................................................................................................2088 BC .............................................................Albion comes to Southern England defeats Bardus in France and rules for 44 years.....2044 BC ..................................Herculese (General of Nimrod) who was Osiris defeats Albion also with an army of celts.....2068 BC ............................................................................Nimrod (Osiris ) dead at this time..........................................2038 BC ................Windmill Hill Village constructed at this time and is a perfect Match for the defeat of Albion at this time and is in line with the Neolithic Industries of Windmill Hill............... See also Stuart Piggot's "Neolithic Cultures of the British Isles with Provisional Industries chart at Back of Book.........

Re Holinshed's chronicles

Hi Darrell I dont know if you got my links page I sent you on the Holinshed's chronicles and if you could open the links page I sent you. Holinshed mentions what he thinks when he says Britain was first inhabbited before the flood; and he cites Genesis chapter 6 verse 4. (I think he's speculating). Verse 3 of the same chapter cites 120 years before the flood when there were giants on the earth which if added to 2348 BC gives a date of 2468 BC when they appeared. I also looked in the Scofield reffrence bible and Scofield comes up with Ussher's date of 2353 BC which is interesting which is a date you quoted in one of our emails. What do you reckon about that Darrell? John

Yes I got your links.

Based on the Creationist model of the Flood, no one could possibly have inhabbited Britain before the Flood since it did not exist in that form. Nor is it likely that the physical location was inhabbitable before the Flood. Nor is it likely that a land was named Britain before the Flood since it appears to be name after a person who lived after the flood.

The Flood occurred in 2348 BC. Scofield makes a 5 year misinteruptation.
I have mention Cush coming to his kingdom in 2254 BC, but I do not mention 2353 BC to my rememberance.

Darrell

Dear Dr Cuozzo I have been examining the Neanderthal skeletons from your book "Burried Alive" and indeed some of the text which describes a Neanderthal Burial with the "Jawbone of a Donkey". Of particular interest inthis connection is the fact that Samson used one of these type of weapons against the Philistines and or a wild animal of some description. It has been said that the philistines deprived the Israelites of "Weopens Smiths" so reducing them (ie the Israelites) to a temporary "Stoneage " Technology; especially with the use of Wooden "Ox Goads" (Could these be wooden spears with fire hardened points?) It certainly seems to imply that type of temporaray technology; if such be the case in this connection. However I'd like to quote a passage from S Gusten Olsen's Book "The Incredible Nordic Origins" on page 30 (Second Paragraph) "Skulls from Borreby":- "In 1895, Arbo expresses the oppinion that the predominance of the dolichichocephalic people increases continuously with the latter archaeological periods. Arbo who descovered the light brachycephalic race was the tribe which orriginally inhabitted Norway (2225 - 2129 BC emphasis Mine), and also that it was gradually forced back to the coastal regions by a later immigrating; tall, blonde and dolichocephalous race (Rasfragor Det avenska folkets ursprung ochrasbeskkaffenhet enligt antropologiens vittnessbord page16 empahasis to author added)". "The Stone Age crania of Denmark and Scania are divided into three groups; and the cephalic indices are as follows:- 23% dolichsophalic; 29% brahycephalic; 48% mesocephalic." Thus I am sugesting that the taller ones were King Erric's (Neolithic/chalcolithic industries) which reached Scandenavia 62 after Babel in 2129 BC and were thus contemporay with Saruch. If you have a coppy of this book Dr Cuozzo; I would highly recomend you to please turn to page 30 of this book (The Incredible Nordic Origins by S Gusten Olsen) where there is an illistation of the Borreby Sculls. The book continues to say that the original inhabitents had a "Bended Gate" at the Knees> I thus am sugesting in conclusion that this is a very "Neanderthal" Characteristic of the European Neanderthal types and thus conforms in some ways to the "Moustier Scull". I think Dr Cuozzo you will find this most helpful. John

The Following Chart is a Brief History of the Middle East and Bible Lands after the flood:

Annomundi 1656 ; 2348 BC ...............Great Flood................................................................................................................................................................................2295 BC/to 2265 BC and to 2254 BC......................The World Survey Teams from the above Date Go to China and all metal working was known immediately after the Flood and brought through it from creation in 4004 BC......Survey Teams at this time probably make stone tools to aid them in mining for metals...............................................................................................................2254 BC Earth is divided and Cush goes to his kingdom...2247 BC ...Birth of Peleg (Earth Divided).........Some of the Survey Teams degenerate into Stone age Cultures ...and are lost in the desert regions........................................................................................................................2260 BC Start of Ice Age and ice becomes visible by survey teams at this time.................................................................2234 BC Founding of Babel and Tower takes 43 Yrs to Build (3 witnesses)...............................................................................2191 BC Dispersion from Babel with probable "Ice Planet" catastrophe at this time...............................................................2189/2188 BC (Early Bronze) Founding of Egypt (FY1).......Menes had seven sons and they built 7 city states, 5 in Egypt and two in Libya; in the war of unification about 27 years after the founding of Egypt, some of the cities were destroyed and ended with only four left; one for the W. and E. Delta Regions.What today is North African Desert appears to have been lush at the time. A great lake existed in North Africa and Libya and was a good fertile area. Early Bronze 2188 - 1500 BC.......................MB1...................................1500 BC - 1055 BC..........................MB2...................................1055 BC to..........#......................1445 BC-1081 BC.............MB1............................Israel.................................................1081 BC-722 BC..............MB2.............................Israel................................................1081 BC-586 BC.............MB2..............................Judah................................................722 BC=539 BC............Late Iron........................Israel.................................................539 BC-300 BC...............Iron..............................Israel..............................Ref. Darrell K White

2347 BC...............................Neolithic/Bronze/Iron and Steel Industries when Noah and sons stepped off the ark imediately after ....the flood in 2347 BC............Egypt founded by Menes (Early Bronze) 2189/2188 BC................................2347 BC to 2189BC Pre dynasty before Menes..........................................2100 BC to 2090 BC Nimrod brings Neolithic civilization to Britain (Reintroduction by Nimrod)

Palaeolithic industries of Cichol Gricenchos (Earliest Days before despersion).....2225 BC...Cichol bourne 2250 BC........................................................2189 BC...........Orkneys Earliest Neolithic Village built by Cichol Gricenchos......Pottery and Red Ochre have also been found http://www.maeshowe.co.uk/maeshow/skara_brae.html
2148 BC (200 yrs after the flood)... Samothean coloney of Palaeolithic huntergatherers (Cromagnon) colonise Britain.

World Survey Teams.............2295 BC to 2254 BC................................Madai visits Britain to see his Allotment of Land 2254 to 2247 BC. One Theory of Mike Oard says that Britain was under Ice before 2254 BC and that Madai son of Japeth descovered his land under Ice the time he visited between 2254 and 2247 BC...................However if he viseted his cave at Paviland in South Wales at time of despersion from Babel..........and an Ice Plannet struck.... it is therefore much more reasonable to assume as the ice did not reach that far down that they walked in in 2191 BC

Samothes .......................arrives England (Palaeolithic Huntergatherers).................200yrs after the flood in 2148 BC..........................Nimrod introduces Neolithic civilization Worldwide..................2094 BC ...........Holinshead's chronicle plus HLH for arrival of Samothes

Here's some further info of particular interst to our readers which needed just a little bit of revising . I have here descussed two theories of Mike Oard's theory and the more revolutionary "Ice Commet theory" which is suggested also by an ancient chronicler. It thus seems Darrell from the link I have that Cichol was the first to have Neolithic technology before Nimrod re-introduced it 2100 to 2090 BC. This thus sugests that the Neanderthals attained quite a high level of civilization and technology. Thus Pottery has also been found at Skara Brae and what looks to me like the kind of weopens giants might use. If you cant click on the link Darrell suggest using tital page Charles Tait Maeshow Winter Solstice.

Mike having in view that Denmark and Scandenavia plus also Northern Scotland were occupied by the Neanderthal sp groups of Cichol Gricenchos and that Hand Axes have been dredged up from the Thames in East Anglia and the North sea along with the remains of extinct animals such as Mammoth and Wooly Rhinoceros &c the confirmation seems to show conclusively that palaeolithic tribes occupied the Dogger lands and North Sea areas somewhere between 2225 BC to 2129 BC in Scandenavia when they were replaced by people of perhaps Cromagnon types under King Eric. What however is of particular interest in this connection is the fact that Cichol built the village or if you like "City" of Skara Brae Contemporay with the founding of Egypt in 2189 BC as a base for operations. Thus the second Neanderthal group under Bergion was ruling over Orkney and Ireland from 2088 BC to 2044 BC and was there until Herculese General of Nimrod brought the next celtic community with them to liberate the samothean groups from oppression from the giants. In conclusion therefore we have the name of the Neanderthal tribal leader; one Cichol Gricenchos who occupied Scandenavia from 2225 to 2129 BC when people of the late stone age or Neolithic cultures came to Scandenavia under King Eric.

Hi John,

Cichol is the only colony we know of in the early days, so the earliest artifacts are likely to belong to this colony. As other groups move in, such as Eric of Demark we would see artifacts from them. The Goths are recording as having 7 cities (if I remember correctly) in the Norway, Sweden region when Gaedel passed that way on his way to Portugal (about 1481 BC) - which was near the high water mark after the Ice Age melt down. By that time, the North Sea would have been about as deep as it is today. The North Sea probably remained relatively shallow from 2300 BC until 1700 BC.

God Bless,

Darrell

Dear Mike ; Graham and Bill the following text of this email has confirmed what I had suspected about the Neaderthal flint industries all allong. Cheers John

Hi Darrell that's most interesting and indeed exactly what I had suspected. I'll send Mike Fischer and indeed Bill Cooper a coppy of this email as I'm sure they'd both be most interested and especially Mike as he gave me the evidense of Neanderthal activity in and arround the North Sea area. I think of particular interest in this connection are the Neanderthal Hand-Axes that have been found. It seems the second Neanderthal coloney in North Scotland must have been the later one of Bergion who is also reputed to have ruled over Orkney (and perhaps Ireland) untill his defeat by Herculese (Nimrod's general) in 2044 BC having thus ruled from 2088. It's great to hear from you any way Darrell and many thanks for this very interesting piece of confirmation. Meanwhile very good Hunting indeed. John

Hi Mike Yes it is indeed nice when the evidence falls in place as you say. According to evolutionary scientists however; the Neanderthals were never supposed to be in Northern Scotland and thus addopting Neolithic civilization as the latest evidence on the contrary shows that indeed they did. Skara Brae being a very "noteworthy example" of this concept; and including pottery. I have here some interesting "Brosures for holidays " in Orkney etc. Try clicking on (Orkney Islands tours and eco-survival skills Scotland ) or http://www.allfivesenses.com Meanwhile good hunting John

Hi Darrell; if you click on the link down below here; there is a picture of some stone monuments from Orkney. Thus I am sugesting also that these megaliths were put up by Cichol Gricenchos or maybe the later coloney of Bergion as he is supposed to have later ruled Orkney from 2088 BC; (same time as Albion in Southern England) John

Dear Dr Walt Brown you have no doubt herd of Darrell K White who places the Babel despersion at 2191 BC (Compendium of World History by HLH) and the start of the tower at the founding of Babel in 2234 BC (3 witnesses as opposed to two witnesses from Larry Pierce). Do you place the Ice age (Start of Ice age ) at 2247 BC and can I also sugest a celestial mechanism (ie Astral catastrophism) as an Ice Planet strike at the poles as this author does not toe the "Oadian creation Party line" on this subject. I sugest it happened in 2191 BC and ended at the time of the exodus in 1491 BC (exactly the 700 yrs needed by Oard doe the end of the Ice age and rappid melt down). If you are dating Neanderthal Man in Britain and Northwest Europe at 2247 BC; then where exactly do you fit in Cromagnon? Mine and Darrell's timeline for Neanderthal is 2225 BC 200 yrs before Battle of Magithe in Ireland with Partholan (Neolithic Industries) Yes the Neanderthal Leader was one "Cichol Gricenchos (Formoraig and thus caananites) (Please visit my website at www.johnhextfremlin.com for industries charts and click the icon "Neolithic Man". Contrary to what evolutionists say about Neanderthal not being in Northern Scotland and other creation Historians; Darrell and myself are suggesting and even in my view insistng that they were indeed in Northern Scotland and built the Neolithic Village of Skara Brae in 2189/2188 BC contemporary with the founding of Egypt. Darrell and myself reject the evolutionary term "Mesolithic" being that cichol and his men were huntergatherers we thus stick with the very convenient labels of Palaeolithic and Neolithic which makes things a whole lot simpler in this connection. Please also read my article on the "Doggerlands Palaeolithic Industries" and it will be shown that the Hand axes found in the North Sea belong to this coloney ie Cichol Gricenchos. Thus I am also sugesting the Newanderthals turned toward Neolithic civilization in 2189 BC. The date given by conventional historians is 3215 BC which correrlates very nicely with Ussher's date of 2189 BC a couple or so yrs after Babel. We would thus expect to find further neolithic weopens and implements from King Eric of Denmark when he arrived there 62 after Babel in 2129 BC. I would like you if you would to make some comments on this email. John

Hi Darrell yes is'nt that interesting. Someone I know in Stafford (Who Skulpted a Neanderthal) even informs me that they had pottery as well (Thus I am sugesting that the Neanderthals were one of the most advanced; if not the Most advanced of all the Palaeolithic races and Tribes. And as you have probably already seen and discerned from the evidense found at Skara Brae that pottery has been found there also not to mention the Red Ochre Paint. Thus in Conclusion my inference is that like you say Darrell some had Neolithic civilization before Nimrod reintroduced it and then again some did'nt have it untill it's reintroduction 2100-2090 BC. Hope Darrell that they've managed to save some of your work and research as far as your computer is concerned as it would be a shame to loose all the hard work that you have put into it especially where genealogies are concerned. Indeed Tuesday sounds quite promising and hope everything goes well and smothely for you. Meanwhile ; Exellant Hunting:- John

Hi Darrell it seems reasonable assumption to deduce that when Nimrod 2125 to 2088 BC (as you have sugested) reintroduced Neolithic civilization at this time before the rebellion in 2065 BC (Death of Nimrod). Thus it seems a near good fit for the date of 2088 BC (When Albion reached Britain on Nimrod's behalf or with Nimrod himself) to have re-introduced the Neolithic (Aggricultural mode of life) What do you reckon Darrell. Johhn

Death of Nimrod should be 2068 BC. When Alibion reached Britain, it appears to me that he was sent by Posideon as part of the rebellion - sending his giant sons to conquer the world - directly against Nimrod. Therefore Nimrod's trips to all the know civilized world would have to have occurred before 2088 BC. Since Neptune was the Admiral of Nimrod's Navy before his rebellion, Alibion may have been part of the Navy under Neptune -- Posideon - his father.

Best Wishes,

Darrell

Post script:- I shall add a new date for the socalled predynastic (Neolithic/Bronze/Iron and Steel industries to my combined Industries chart of 2347 BC for Noah &sons when they landed of the arc. John

Hi John,

Think things are coming along on my new computer. I need to find a instant messenging program next - microsoft's did not install.

Britain Mael - do we have any evidence that the Irish, of whom he came, did any monuments of a similar nature? If not, then some other group is probably more likely.

I remain a bit skeptical of Geoffry of Monmouth - but I do not discount the possibility, would like more evidence.

The time of Abraham would be 1996 BC to 1821 BC. This is the time of the rule of the Celts from northern France. Did they do monuments like this? I think so.

Consider this possibility - Britain Mael left northern Ireland - so the most likely area for his colony to settle was in Scotland and then spread. But 1755 is to late.

However, the Celts regained control of northern France in 2044 after the defeat of Albion. Since some of Albion's decendents remained in the area, the migration of the Celts(and Druids) may have taken a while before reaching this area. This fits the time of Abraham quite well. Do we find any artifacts that appear similar to those found, for that time period, in northern France??

But we can't totally ignore the possibility that Albion's decendents made it - they would have had the mathematical/astronomical learning of the sons of Poseidon. But the Celts seem a better fit to me.

Darrell

Time of Abraham ....................................................................................................................................1996 BC to 1821 BC... This is also the time of the rule of Celts from Northern France. The Celts regained controll of Northern France in 2044 BC after the defeat of Abion though Albion's decendents remained in the area it may have taken a while for the celts to reach this area of Britain ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,to build stonehenge at this time ca 1996 BC to 1821 BC...........It maybe that some of Albion's decendents had a hand in building stonehenge since they had the mathamatical skills in astronomy and also navigation being sons of Sidon 1755 BC Britan Mael................................This colony settled Scotland ..........This would have been too late........................................1152 BC........It should be noted here that Brutus fought the giant remnent of Poseiden and not as previously stated the Hu Gadarn coloney..............................................According to Geoffry of Monmouth stonehenge was probably finished in the 6th century AD...............................................at timeof Merlin and King Arthur................Conclusion..........During the "Neolithic" preiod stonehenge was started around ,,,,,,,,,,1996 BC to 1821 BC......The Celts and Druids are thus the best fit for Stonehenge..........................1421 BC (Upper Limmit) 1365 BC lower limmit......probably completed by Hu Gadarn and his men during the archaeological "Bronze Age"................

>> >> the 1700's BC time frame. The question that arrises is:- "Was Herculese Lybicus, the "Herculese" who was Nimrod's General ?

All Readers of this website Please note that Albion was defeated 310
years from the Flood. It should also be noted in this connection that
it was not 310 years that Samotheans ruled but rather from 2348 BC -
310 yrs = 2038 BC in our chronology for the defeat of Albion by
Nimrod's General Herculese Egyptus plus 44 years = 2082 BC for
Albion's victory and occupation untill 2038 BC for the defeat of
Albion and the Irish Giant Bergeon so that Partholan could colonise
Ireland 3yrs later thus 2035 BC.
Here is an Industries chart Update from Cichol Gricenchos through to
the Neolithic Industries.

Great Flood annomundi 1656 or 2348 BC........................................
Start of Predynastic period before 2188
BC.................................Noah and Sons step off the Arc in
2347 BC Neolithic Bronze Iron and Steel Industries

World Surveys (Teams use stone Tools to aid them in mining for Metals)
2295 BC through 2265 and 2254 BC through to 2247 BC (Devision in days
of Peleg,

Cichol Gricenchos First Neanderthal Huntergatherers arrive Scotland
(Orkney ) 2225 BC (Palaeolithic
Industries)..............................
Founding of Babel 2234
BC....................................................................................................(Early
Bronze)
Despersion from
Babel.................................................................................2191
BC.........Ice age Plannet strike at this time....All metals are used
till time of Babel
Despersion.................................................................................................................
Founding of Egypt under Menes (Misraem ) Early
Bronze..............................................................2189/2188
BC

The Village of Skara Brae (Orkney) built by Cichol as Base for
Opperations contyemporary with founding of Egypt............2189 BC
Samothes (Mesheck) arrives
France...................................................................2172BC
England arrives 37 Years later with some palaeolithic Huntergatherers
...........................................2135 BC ...........Dies 2088 BC
All these people carry on ruling till the arrival of Albion and more
hunter gatherers ...........................2082 BC
Death of Nimrod...............................2068/2067 BC
Herculese Nimrod's General fights Titans and defeats Albion lestrigo and Bergeon ..........................2038 BC
Nimrod Introduces Neolithic industry world wide ca 2094 BC

................................................................................
Magus rules 2038 BC through to 1987 BC and courses Towns cities and
Bouroughs at this time plus possible construction of Stonehenge at
this time in 1996 BC time frame with the Neolithic Industries.........................................................................
Suspected rule of Saronides ancestor of sacrificing Priests 1987 to 1907 BC................................................
Druis from whom the Druids were founded ca 1907 BC
Britain Mael 1755 BC........... Late Neolithic Industries
Ice age Melt down and English Channel formed.............1491 BC,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Hu Gadarn in the Honey Iles 1421/1365 BC Early Bronze
...........another posible costruction of Stonehenge a this time
Brutus arrives 1152 .BC Mix of EB1 and MB1 ALTERATION: This date is now revised to 1118 BC as the date of the Trojan war is 1184 BC
Late Bronze 722 BC................................

546 to 539 BC Morindus King of Britain Iron (A)
Latene Celts..............Iron (B) HLH Compendium of world
History...........................

The First Roman invasion by Julius Caesar......................55 BC
The second invasion by Caesar in ..................................54 BC

AD 43 The Romans conquer Britain under Claudius
AD 410 the Romans are recalled back to Rome as empire is threatened by
Goths Vandals and Huns

S:- This has been ammended from 2191 BC to 2247 BC being as Madai found his land covered in Ice (Genesis appocraphon), Days of Peleg (Peleg bourne annomubdi 1757) Earth Devided (Possible Ice Plannet Strike) and begginnings of Stone age cultures

End of Ice Age....................................................................................................................1491

Adding Mike Oard's date ..................................Ice on Mountain Tops.........................2347 BC Total Duration of Ice Age...................................2247 BC -

1491 BC =756 yrs (2191 BC to 1491 BC = 700 years constituted by Mike Oard for Duration of Ice age.

Adding a further 100 years 2247 BC + 100 BC= 2347 BC Adding also Mike Oard's concept we get Total Duration for Ice Age =

Home	The last British Neanderthals?		Catastrophism and Cave Men	Cave Men in Historic Times	Miscellaneous
Was there a Gap?	The Flood	Division in the days of Peleg 2247 BC	Chronology of Neolithic Man	Timeline for Britain and Ireland from the Flood	Creation to the Romans

Date AM	Industries	Dates BC	Events
0		3963	Creation
1656		2307	Flood
1948		2015	Birth of Abraham
1969 about 17 may	stone age (palaeo/meso/neolithic)	1994	Partholan arrives in Ireland
2268	Neolithic/copper	1695	Nemedius arrives in Ireland
2448		1515	Exodus from Egypt
2650		1313	Formores control Ireland
2700	Bronze	1263	Firbolgue sons of Dela
2737		1226	Tuatha de Dannan in Ireland
?	Bronze	?	Brutus in Britain
2934	Iron (A)	1029	Melisians take Ireland from Tuatha de Dannan
3507	Iron (B)	456	Simon Brech
3513		450	Kimboy Mcflinton is crowned king of Ulster where palace is built and lasted 855 years
3770		193	Maccabees
3904		59	Herod