Hu Gadarn: was he Joshua?

John,
 
You should review the book link I sent, some interesting comments from the Welsh Triads.
It appears that in the early 1820's the Cymry theory was being presented based on these Triads.
I would like to review the pro's and con's of this theory a little more, but it does seem to
provide considerable more support from older accounts.
 
More comments:  1365 BC is only an estimate at this time and only one of two cited duration.
More research has to be done to refine this.  The other would project to about 1515 BC.
 
2.  One description of the move states that Hu's homeland near the black sea was being flooded.
This was the reason for looking elsewhere.  In another description, it states that enemies
were pressing them.  Both may be valid.  I date the high water of the black sea to about the
1490 to 1440 BC time frame (rough estimate).  The Canaanites were defeated in 1440 BC
and after some moved north to the modern Turkey region, may have pressed these Cymry
between 1420 and 1365 BC time frame.  So these two descriptions seem to fit the chronological framework that I have been working on.  The about 1365 BC fits better than the about 1515 BC.
 
3.  Stonehenge seem to fit into this time frame fairly well.  And Druids would be the likely ones to have built it.  Hu brought the Druid religion with him.
 
So, if nothing else, it is quite interesting and tends to fit.
 
Darrell

More research has to be done to refine this.  The other would project to about 1515 BC.
 

Subject: RE: Hu Gadarn; Was he Joshua

Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 21:19:21 +0000

That's very interesting Darrell. If Hu was decended from Gomer then this makes them Japethites; and so much for the naming game of HLH an d other AngloIsraelists. So in a word Hu Gadarn founded Stone Henge say on his arrival date of 1365 BC.  These were evidently a Bronze using people and as you rightly say "Given the Ice Age Glaciers had melted by this time would then make Britain uninhabitted. If I'd known what I know now I'd have included him on my Industries Tables but then again as this is a very complicated subject then I'd say that one simplyu can't do everything although I am of oppinion that given the information that you have supplied to me is quite adiquate for now. I think also the two diffrent dates we have for Cichol Gricenchos ie 2225 BC for North Scotland and 2208 fort Ireland make two good "Abouts" dates. Ihave found some interesting information on Ardna "Copper Industries". What I am thus sugesting is that if Ardna was in Ireland and made the descovery in 2208 BC then  he would have tested the ground for Agricultural purposes although I was'nt there at the time an must ownly betaken as an inference (although not unreasonable under the circumstances) Thus making Cichol and Ardna contemporaries. What however is most interesting are the Skiffs found in the Clyde "River silt " mentioned by Mr DA Macenzie in his book "Ancient Man in Britain " . I'd highly recomend this book to you Darrell as it's one I could read over and over again. By the way Darrell I had a telephone converstion with Larry Pierce about two nights ago on Newton 's short chronology of 1125 BC to 331 BC. He's got a very radical timeline for Neanderthals. I asked him:- "Are you saying that the Neanderthals were here Britain/Europe from 1125 BC? He replied "Yes" "followed by the Bronze industry ca 1000 BC". In Conclusion Darrell "He Cannot Be Serious" Although I think that's what he really believes. John

Hi John,
 
I have found many good sources on Cymry history that seem to fit.
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=hh8tAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA114&dq=gomer++%22hu+gadarn%22&lr=
 
The Cambrain Journal ... Tenby 1854  ------------ has many translations from the original Triades.
 
A number of references are given which suggest that those who consider him mythical and of recent origin in poetry are in error.  He seems to be a real person, although some history is mixed with myth (since he was consider a god to the cymry and thus fables added to the historical figure)
 
p. 114  It appears from this account that Hu Gadarn was of the line of Gomer through the line of Cymry (sp?) whose offspring are the Cimmerians.  Most of the older sources (pre 1854 AD) seem to support that he was from Gomer (and thus not Joshua).  I have only read one Brit-Israeli article on him, but it only tried to id him by name association (Hu they say = Hesus = Joshua and Mighty = Joshua).  Never-the-less, name association is a great weakness in doing ancient history and provides, in my mind, almost no support for their assertions.
 
He is said to have lead 3 groups of Cymry to England .
 
The next major era for england start with Prydain which they suggest may be Brutus.  But the information provided suggests Brutus was Gaulish rather than Trojan.
 
p. 225 it gives some chronology information.  Roll of tradition suggest Hu came 382 years before Evrog who was 78 years after Brutus.  This gives about  1365 BC for the colony of cymry.
 
The country was said to have been uninhabited and full of honey.  If Ice Age glaciers had just melted, then few large trees or forests, but lots of flowering meadows.  Bees would thrive in all areas around the baltic were the Ice Caps had melted.  Thus the tradition of drinking Mead would be common.  (just watched Beowulf - movie last night and the mead connection seems powerful).  They named it the Honey Isles.
 
Just fits nicely.  The Canaanites are expelled by Joshua about 1440 BC, they move slowly north - first to the hittite region of modernTurkey, then north-west to Cimmerian territory.  Hu Gadarn lead his displace people from the Constanipole region to England via the German Sea and find England in a condition similar to what we would expect some hundred years after the glaciers melted (unihabited and with lots of Honey).  One reference ties Hu to setting up those fameous astronomical pillars and establishing Druid religion.
 
About 250 years latter, Prydain (?? Brutus) arrives and gives law to the people.
 
I find that these Cymry documents may help provide details in the establishment of early british history.
 
Darrell
 

Darrell what is all this about Joshua alius Hu Gadarn driving out the Canaanites from Europe ? And is Olsen right about Eric and his men being Shemites? Where does Gusten Olsen get his date of 2500 annomundi or 1504 BC for Joshua? There is evidently some link to Newton 's time line here ; because we also find Sesostress the third at the time of Joshua. These Histories seem to be in total chaos. John

John,
 
I will be out of town for 9 days.  Don't expect much response during that time.
 
I did a little research on Hu Gadarn with little positive results (ignoring the Brit-Israeli groups).
Suggest searches for information pre 1850 AD.  Found excellent books with data and genealogies.  Hu may have been figmentary (since only recent references are found- no ancient accounts.)  If real, it is highly unlikely that he is Joshua based on the information I saw.
 
Darrell